WILLYARD: Show Me the Money!
An Editorial by Becky Fullerton and Jennifer Willyard
In our last editorial, we stressed urgency in fiscal responsibility of the Armstrong School District and today we would like to show you a large reason why.
In the 2012-2013 school year, there will be a “rate spike” in payments due from all school districts in Pennsylvania, to the Teachers Pension Fund. This is not a new announcement. This is something that the ASD has known about for some time now. A lot of Districts in Pennsylvania have started to prepare for this spike in by cutting corners, consolidating schools, consolidating resources, and even paying more each month toward the obligation so the “hit” in 2012 would not be so hard.
Has ASD done this? The previous board attempted to start to do so with the closing of Elderton High School. The current board reopened the school in their second session. Did they truly have enough time in one week to sit down as a board and discuss things? We know we have seen people ask at meetings if there was a feasibility study, a financial plan, anything to support reopening Elderton High School. The only thing that the board has repeatedly said is “they were elected by people who support community schools”. Yet they will not answer questions posed by the community on this subject. Why not?
Is it feasible to the district at large to reopen the school, with many expenses involved, instead of trying to save money as every other district and taxpayer are doing? If you knew that you had a very large expense coming up, wouldn’t you start planning ahead and saving everything you possibly could for it? If you had to come up with a $50,000 payment on a house, would you go spend $30,000 on a car? If you had an extra $4,000,000 left from last year’s budget cuts would you spend it to reopen a school that will have less students than KJHS has in 7 and 8, will need millions of dollars in renovations AND that will need to be staffed at a tune greater than $2 million? Common Sense says no.
The rate of the pension payment for 2010-2011 is 8.22%. That is 8.22% of the payroll for all of the district’s members in the Pennsylvania Public Schools Employees’ Retirement System (PSERS) Not just the teachers. In ASD that payroll number is huge. In an article by the PSERS, the estimated “spike” for 2012-2013 is 29.22%. And guess what? That rate will not stay there. The following year, it is set to rise more, to an estimated 32.09%, and the year after that 33.6%, before it does go down slightly in 2016.
What does the ASD plan to do? We have asked several times, as have MANY other people. The only answers that are received are either “wait until the smoke clears” ,“we were elected for community schools”, “no there is not a preliminary budget”. Where is the fiscal responsibility ASD?
Stop spending our money foolishly! You are not playing monopoly with that $85,000,000 budget! You are playing with people’s lives!
Don’t be fooled. There WILL be a tax increase, BUT how much is that going to have to be? If our directors were planning ahead and not abusing tax payer’s dollars that increase would not have to be as great as it is going to be due to the current direction of the board.
If you are interested in looking at the information regarding the PSERS and have internet access, please go to www.psers.state.pa.us
In our last editorial, we also posed the dare to all of the board members to hold a town hall meeting. In addition, we personally emailed the Directors asking them to take part in such a meeting. A few days later, we received a call. Apparently, the people of Kittanning were reading and asking for such a meeting from their Directors. Their Directors ARE listening and willing to hold a Town Hall meeting for any taxpayer in the ASD attendance area.
On Sunday, March 28th , HERC-ACT is pleased to host the first(of hopefully many more) Town Hall meeting at the Covenant Center at 301 Jefferson Street, Kittanning at 2 PM.
Due to limited seating, an RSVP will be required and we will only allow for a maximum of 4 seats per reservation.
You can RSVP to Info@asd-news.com or write to us
Kittanning Paper 114 South Jefferson Street Kittanning, PA 16201 Attention: ASD News To UseWe want to get the most information to those in attendance, so if you have a question that you would like presented to the Directors, please submit them to the same addresses as the RSVP. The moderators will present the questions to each director.
Until next time, stay informed!!!!
OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE THOSE OF THE AUTHOR AND REFLECT PAID SPONSORSHIP…
Tags: ASD, Teachers pension fund
By Elizabeth Walker, March 12, 2010 @ 7:34 AM
A very good editorial. It makes sense and that is apparently what this new Schoold board lacks!
By youngermoreintelligentman, March 12, 2010 @ 8:11 AM
Excellent point! This is just what is needed to enlighten the taxpayer as opposed to the insane ramblings of Markilinski and Solak. “Fiscal responsibility of the Armstrong School District” is exactly what the school board should be concentrating on instead of Markilinski’s imaginary “spoils of war”. There is no war here, only concerned taxpayers and parents who want the best district for there students.
By sweetleur, March 12, 2010 @ 8:53 AM
Hopefully all the directors will show, not just the ones from Kittanning.
By Jen16226, March 12, 2010 @ 11:50 AM
As much as I would like for that to happen, I doubt it. LOL I did email all of the Directors asking if they were planning a town hall meeting and after I received word to go ahead with this meeting coming up, I then emailed Director’s Solak, Markinlinski and Stitt(since they represent FCHS and I am in that attendance area) to see if they were interested in doing one in their area….the only answer I received was from MJM and it was not a love note. LOL
Just make sure to sign up early for the town hall meeting because I know we have received SEVERAL responses already.
By humbleopinion, March 12, 2010 @ 12:15 PM
This is a great informational article dealing with the troubled waters in ASD. I commend fullerton and willyard for their proactive, informative articles that deal with the current issues, and most importantly not slandering anyone and sticking with the issues that are effecting ASD taxpayers…..NOT the slandering article that smears people, doesn’t address any points to better the ASD current issues or taxpayes of the county, and doesn’t threaten people or ridicule people for a bad choice of drinking and driving that was published today as well as a few months ago. Maybe Kitt. Paper published it to make MJM a laughing stock and he will be held liable for his words. I wouldn’t waste my time commenting oh his post and give him an ounce of gratification from a response. I urge all of you to stop commenting on his article and stick with the real issues. He loves to throw stones and we all know the famous saying, “People in a glass house should not throw stones”, wherever that glass house may be in Manor Twp.????!!!
By David Zablocki, March 12, 2010 @ 5:35 PM
First and foremost I would like to thank Becky and Jen for putting together a great factual article that brings to light an issue that all of the tax payers in this county and state will be facing. I know they eluded to it later in their article as the PSERS fund but initially it was mentioned as the “Teachers Pension Fund.” Please be mindful of the fact that not only are teachers in this pension system but also school bus drivers directly hired by the district, central office administrators, maintenance/custodial staff, cafeteria workers, paraprofessional/aides, some charter school employees, intermediate unit employees, secretaries and anybody who works for the school district and qualifies (basically works enough hours to qualify for a retirement credit). It is also worth noting that employees of community colleges of Pennsylvania, employees of Penn State University and those that work for the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education (PASSHE) and all of its 14 universities are all eligible to contribute to and draw from the Pennsylvania State Employees Retirement System. In short, if a person was a professor at Indiana University of Pennsylvania and worked there long enough they could have contributed to PSERS and could be drawing from the retirement system right now…of course this scenario is hypothetical. I only wrote this because I don’t want this dilemma to be “pinned” on the teachers of our district or state – the scope of this matter is far greater and affects more people than those who unfortunately may not read your article can grasp. Once again thank you for bringing the facts to light for everyone to see.
By Jen16226, March 12, 2010 @ 8:28 PM
Thank you.
This is what we are striving for….to get good, accurate information out there and sharing our opinions, which we feel IS representing the majority of the taxpayers in our area.
That’s also why I feel this town hall meeting is so important. There are so many questions that people have and answers are not forthcoming.
There needs to be communication.
By rfullerton, March 12, 2010 @ 9:35 PM
Thanks Dave! I am sorry about that! I missed that first reference calling the PA Public School Employees Retirement Fund the “teacher’s pension fund”. Dave is absolutely correct as to who the fund covers.
By elderman, March 13, 2010 @ 1:28 AM
Reply to Jen and Becky: I see that you are inviting any taxpayer in the ASD attendance area. I think that is a good idea. I initially thought that this would be something that I would like to attend given that I would have the opportunity to ask questions. But now I come to realize that the questions are to be submitted before the meeting and will be read by a moderator. This raises the question of which questions will be chosen for answer/discussion. Will only the “easy” questions be chosen or only those questions that can be answered to portray the 3 directors or your group in a favorable light. At a recent tea party meeting I attended, people were invited to step forward and pose their questions, no screening was involved. I suggest that you rethink how you are going to structure the question and answer period to avoid any hint of impropriety.
By Jen16226, March 13, 2010 @ 7:37 AM
Sorry Dave!!!!
I missed that too when editing.
By Jan, March 13, 2010 @ 8:03 AM
What Dave states is true. As a member of PASSHE, we also fall under the pension plan fund. There are several retirement funds out there but for the most part, instructors and professors at state universities contribute to PSERS.
By kwiss4, March 13, 2010 @ 8:32 AM
I understand that there needs to be concern over the pension fund, but there should also be concern about how it got to were it is, and that is because when the markets were good contributers were told they good lower their contributions.Where is the fiscal responsibilty in that decision. You say that the closure of Elderton was in part to help with the pension fund, never was that mentioned in any discussion about Elderton. I would also like to add that all the members of the psers are looking to find a solution.
By David Zablocki, March 13, 2010 @ 6:03 PM
No problem, I’m just glad to see some tangible information coming out regarding what is soon to be a crisis. Thanks to the both of you for bringing it to the forefront.
By Jen16226, March 13, 2010 @ 8:32 PM
Elderman,
I am glad that you like the idea of all invited to attend.
There is no attempt to make questions easy for the directors that will be there. The ONLY reason for the request of any questions ahead of time is to keep the meeting flowing.
If people are attending(say you for example) you could absolutely cry foul if your question is not read.
The intention of this meeting is not to pull the wool over anyones eyes. Lets not kid ourselves, Directors Choncek, Close and Rearic know full well there will be some questions posed that will be hardballs. They want to answer questions. Wasn’t it Director Close that posed the town hall meeting to begin with a few weeks ago? And bravo to them because nobody else is doing that.
I swear to you that I have emailed every director with basic questions and only a few responses, from the same couple. I think that is one of the major things that is wrong with this entire debacle is there is a lack of communication. Would you not agree if so many people are stating this?
Anyway, every person that RSVP’s with a question will get a return email stating that their question was received or a return note if snail mailed and I intend on printing out every single RSVP, question and return email as verification if that is what is pleasing to all.
KSwiss…….I agree that there should be concern of how it got that way to begin with. I do not see it any different than when you pick your portfolio, do you want it all in high risk or do you spread it out? And unfortunately the business manager at that time is no longer with the district. IMO, when the bottom started to fall out, money should have been reallocated from the budget and there should have been an increase in payment to the pension fund to start getting the balance down.
I’ve explained it before like this because it does make sense:
Look at all of those balloon mortgages that were out there. People were given advice to pay more than the minimum so at the end the payment would not have been so high. There were alot of people that suddenly found themselves in dire straits in the end when they didn’t have that huge amount of money to pay off the end balance.
Hopefully the Directors will tell us all how they intend to have the money on hand to pay these large balances over the next few years.
Onto the next statement:
You stated:”You say that the closure of Elderton was in part to help with the pension fund, never was that mentioned in any discussion about Elderton.”
We stated: “A lot of Districts in Pennsylvania have started to prepare for this spike in by cutting corners, consolidating schools, consolidating resources, and even paying more each month toward the obligation so the “hit” in 2012 would not be so hard.
Has ASD done this? The previous board attempted to start to do so with the closing of Elderton High School.”
The district was indeed looking at cutting costs and one of the bigger costs in the district was EHS. Why? Because of the school’s increased building costs, the declining enrollment, and the low number of students graduating.
By elderman, March 14, 2010 @ 3:07 AM
Your article deals with the future increased payments into the PSER fund. You blame the current board’s action of reopening Elderton as a waste of available money and in many of your postings you praise directors Close, Choncek, and Rearic as being fiscally prudent in their opposition to the reopening of Elderton. Lets look at a few things that you have omitted.
First, you say that the PSER rate hike is something that ASD has known about “ for some time now. The “for some time now” I know dates back to the final meeting of the previous board when on Nov. 22, 2009 former board member Terry Rupp attempted to have a vote taken to reduce the millage rate by 6 mills, from 55 mills to 49 mills. This millage reduction was supposedly prompted by the school district having “generated excess money” and would have cut the district’s income by 3 million dollars annually. And you ask, why mention this now? After all, Mr. Rupp realized he could not be re-elected and is off the board. The reason I mention this is that directors Close, Choncek, and Rearic voted with Mr. Rupp to have a vote taken on the tax cut. Imagine, these 3 directors who are so fiscally prudent in condemning Elderton’s reopening to save tax money for the PSER fund supported a vote to cut the districts income by 3 million dollars when they KNEW of the PSER rate hike. INCREDIBLE! These directors may attempt to explain their actions by saying that the ASD administration reported that they had found 4 million dollars that they were previously unaware of, but if the administration was clueless as to the existence of this huge sum of money, might they likewise be mistake if in fact it did exist?
Further, the money that Dr. Kerr claimed would be saved by closing Elderton was never realized . First, the high school is tied to the elementary school so the building(s) and grounds had to continue to be heated and maintained. Second the bulk of the savings would have to have been realized through teaching position cuts and that did not occur. The teachers simply followed the students to their new buildings so teaching position cuts were minimal. The Kittanning Paper’s Mr. Croyle discusses this lack of saving in his Talk of The Town broadcast on Feb 2, 2010 on Family Life TV around the 40:00 minute mark of the broadcast. He offers as proof that no significant job losses occurred when Elderton closed and none were gained when it reopened by the fact that the teachers union took “no stance” on Elderton being reopened. No union would take a “no stance” position if jobs increases were available, especially the teachers union in Pa. that is known for being notoriously powerful. I will provide more information on this subject later in my posting.
The directors that you hail as being fiscally prudent, Mr. Close, Choncek, and Rearic also voted for the bloated and totally inappropriate contract that was awarded to the ASD teachers after they repeatedly threatened to strike if their demands were not met. The contract is inappropriate in terms of the wage increases granted and also in terms of the duration of the contract. Contracts like this harm the district immediately in the current budget. The large pay increases granted also come back to haunt the district in the very area that you chose to write your article about; the large increases raise the upper limit of the pay scale so that the teachers’ eventual pension payout goes up accordingly. Double Disaster! This inappropriate contract was awarded to the ASD teachers at a time when the national, regional, and local economy is in a shambles. Most private enterprises no longer offer defined pension programs, they have replaced them with 401K programs. Many companies no longer contribute or have cut their contributions to employees’ accounts. Social security is frozen. Many companies have cut hours or have reduced salaries. All this at a time when the teachers demand this huge pay raise, threaten to strike if their demands were not met, and were rewarded with both a huge contract and to make matters worse, for an extended period of time. And guess what folks, directors Close, Choncek, and Rearic ALL VOTED FOR THIS CONTRACT. Does this seem like they are the financial conservatives that Jen and Becky would have you believe. Additionally, and I have to get more information on this, but I would like to know if the terms of the new contract were made retroactive back to when the last contract expired. In other words, I suspect that the teachers got their raises not when they agreed to the new contract, but back to when the old contract expired. Surely Jen and Becky’s financially prudent directors would not let that happen, or would they? To my understanding, the board is not required to make the pay increases retroactive.
Now Jen, I certainly do not want to be too tough on you. In past postings you have portrayed yourself as someone who is fighting tax increases for the poor, the elderly, and in general just trying to get the “facts” out to everyone. Yet, you coauthor this article with RFullerton, a teacher in ASD whose union demanded huge pay increases, threatened repeatedly to strike if their demands were not met, and was rewarded with the aforementioned inappropriate contract. Jen, I know you find yourself in a tenuous position in dealing with Becky; you know the teacher’s contract is over generous but cannot criticize it or the teachers because of your working relationship with Becky. How did you ever allow yourself to be maneuvered into this situation? I will try to help by posting the following link: http://www.stopteacherstrikes.org/Home_Page.php This site is called “Stop Teacher Strikes in Pennsylvania” and contains a wealth of information. Included are videos of testimony before the Pa. senate, the first of which is testimony by a gentleman named Simon Campbell who is VERY IMPRESSIVE. It also contains information about the number of teacher strikes in Pennsylvania, the number of children who are affected by these strikes each year, how Pa. is rated nationally in terms of teacher pay, and even individual teacher salaries in ASD for the 08-09 year. I urge all readers to view this site for an eye opening experience.
The other thing that we all need to keep in focus, this pension plan was enacted by the state legislature back when the stock market and the economy were in a bull run and the sky was the limit. The economy has obviously changed. The state is only partially funding the plan, the individual Penna. school districts have been saddled with the remainder without really having any input or any control on how these costs have spiraled. This has resulted in school districts being forced to choose between what is best for the students or funding the pension plan. The school boards across the state need to address this problem with the legislature and insist that the legislature fund what they have mandated. But beyond that, the PSER plan needs to be reexamined and put in line with private sector pension plans. In the past, public sector jobs such as teaching positions were not known for their high pay but had great benefits; now it appears that they are high paying while retaining the great benefits.
By rfullerton, March 14, 2010 @ 11:35 AM
elderlyman:
I am so sorry that you had to be so worried that our article may reach people in a factual and prudent way, that you had to be awake at 3 am trying to put out fires. Lunesta may help.
No matter how you try to twist the facts, turn attention away from matters at hand and try your best to drive a wedge between the ASD union and between HERC-ACT members you are sadly unsuccessful. Why don’t you direct your energies towards solving current ASD problems rather than making excuses for the extremely poor decision to reopen a money pit. People of the district are now wise to your ways and are having none of it. Please “GET A LIFE”.
I cannot speak to why some members of the board voted to give back moneys to the taxpayers but I do know that you were one who voted no to it. If you would like to know their reasons ask them.
I cannot speak to why the union decided to take a stand or not. I can only state that I, as a taxpayer, voter, parent and educator in the district have decided to take a stand. I believe that is my god-given right as a citizen of this country and the threats I have received from various current board members will not dissuade me from my rights. If you want comment from the union please contact the President.
PSERS is what it is and discussing it and picking it apart is NOT going to change the fact that this money is DUE. The public school employees did not create the way the fund is handled. Legislaters did. Move on.
We have hashed and rehashed teachers salaries and benefits. They are what they are and we cannot change that. If you feel that a starting salary of a teacher in ASD is excessive that is your right but $45,000 is hardly excessive for what teachers do. Let’s move on.
As far as the relationship between Jen and I, we are adults that can disagree on things if need be. She is welcome to form her own opinions as am I. Luckily, we ARE adults who do not make things personal. We can disagree on any number of issues but still be civil, mature and yes friendly. As the public can plainly see the members of HERC-ACT do not try to make issues personal as you and your band of merry men do. It is counterproductive and a genuine waste of time. Jen and I have the same worries for this district and have received support from MANY MANY others who feel the same. Are you feeling support?
Stop wasting your time muddying the waters. Let’s try to solve the district problems and stop all of the immature name calling. It is sooooooo tiresome!
By rudytuesday, March 14, 2010 @ 11:43 AM
Elderman/Solak
You keep stating that no teachers were laid off that all were reassigned. This is not true. If you look at PER-4 A from the June 22, 2009 minutes, you will see that personnell were laid off. I have been told that 25 teachers were laid off.
http://web1.asd.k12.pa.us/documents/agendas/2009/06-June/Personnel.pdf
By rudytuesday, March 14, 2010 @ 11:51 AM
Further, here are the minutes were Per-4A was approved http://web1.asd.k12.pa.us/documents/agendas/2009/08-August/03-Minutes/Minutes.pdf
By jfullerton, March 14, 2010 @ 11:52 AM
Good morning Elderman,
Again, a few comments for you to spur this debate and continue this discussion. You wrote from above: “the bulk of the savings would have to have been realized through teaching position cuts and that did not occur. The teachers simply followed the students to their new buildings so teaching position cuts were minimal. The Kittanning Paper’s Mr. Croyle discusses this lack of saving in his Talk of The Town broadcast on Feb 2, 2010 on Family Life TV around the 40:00 minute mark of the broadcast. He offers as proof that no significant job losses occurred when Elderton closed and none were gained when it reopened by the fact that the teachers union took “no stance” on Elderton being reopened. No union would take a “no stance” position if jobs increases were available, especially the teachers union in Pa. that is known for being notoriously powerful. I will provide more information on this subject later in my posting.”
There were teaching positions that were cut. I do not know how to communicate that to you and Mr. Croyle. Let me provide you with one example. I am great friends with a gym teacher who was furloughed and now was given a long term teaching position for this school year. So his position was lost, he only got another one because of an unfortunate circumstance for another teacher. If this did not happen, he would not have a job. Other teachers were not as lucky. With the re-opening of Elderton, he will be hired back. So there is one hire. Another example of a hire that will have to happen: Let’s say that there is a science teacher at KJHS that wants to return to Elderton. Who will now fill that gap when this person leaves? Will they just disperse the students that this person was teaching to the other two science teachers? Nope, they will have to hire another teacher. So there will be teacher hires. Can you realize a big savings in one year? No, but when you take it over time, you will realize not only salary savings, but costs of benefits, which increase every year.
And as far as the no stance, I was not privy to the discussions as to why teachers had no stance as a union, although I guess you are seeing plenty of teachers that are taking a stance on their own. But no where did I read that the union supported the re-opening or did not support it. So please try not to spin it in your favor. I suggest you contact the President of the ASD union if you would like the answer and not use Mr. Croyle as your end all be all fact checker.
Let me move on to the teacher’s contract, as this seems to be a sore spot. Before I begin, I want to say that I am opposed to teacher strikes. I do not think that they solve the problem and distract from what is best for all. Not one good thing comes from a strike as it brings hard feelings to the table. Again, teachers can demand, the board can say no. And vice versa, which is why the teachers went almost a year without a contract. In the immediate area, the ASD union was the first group that contributed anything to their health benefits. However, if there was not a contract settlement, the teachers would have continued to work under the old contract, which did not require them to pay anything towards health care. So while they do not pay as much as the private sector folks do, at least that bridge has been crossed and all subsequent contracts will include some sort of contribution. I think that is a move in the right direction.
The pension plan is what it is. You are right in what you saying, it was enacted by legislators. It was not done by public school employees. So if you have an issue with that, then I would suggest you contact PSERS and your local representative and try to make some change.
Elderman, you seem to want some change. I do too, so please, let’s stop arguing about points that we cannot control (contract and pension fund) and let’s find a solution to these issues that our county is facing.
By way to go, March 14, 2010 @ 1:47 PM
To Elderman;
How much would you like a teacher to make? Sadly, you are a teacher and so are BOTH of your daughters for ASD!! I would be so embarrassed if I were them. How much would you like them to make? Do you think they are not worth their salary? I bet that goes well at holiday dinners. Shame on you! You apparently do not have respect for them as professionals either! Were you worth your pay check at IUP?
By Jen16226, March 14, 2010 @ 2:09 PM
Hello there Elderman!
Let’s take it from the top!
“First, you say that the PSER rate hike is something that ASD has known about “ for some time now. The “for some time now” I know dates back to the final meeting of the previous board when on Nov. 22, 2009 former board member Terry Rupp attempted to have a vote taken to reduce the millage rate by 6 mills, from 55 mills to 49 mills.”
Do you seem to think that even though there is not alot of documentation out there to view, that the business manager, the admin and the board were not aware that there was an increase coming?
“Further, the money that Dr. Kerr claimed would be saved by closing Elderton was never realized”
By chance are you a businessman? I ask because anyone that owns a business or works in a business where you deal with the budgets knows full well that any type of savings for closing a branch, cutting back on expenses, etc are NOT going to show savings within a 10 month period. This is something that is typically realized after a 2-3 year period.
“Surely Jen and Becky’s financially prudent directors would not let that happen, or would they? To my understanding, the board is not required to make the pay increases retroactive.”
ummmmm do you see my logon name here? It is Jen16226….16226=zip code for Ford City. So I am sorry, but the directors that you have named are not mine.
“Jen, I know you find yourself in a tenuous position in dealing with Becky; you know the teacher’s contract is over generous but cannot criticize it or the teachers because of your working relationship with Becky. How did you ever allow yourself to be maneuvered into this situation?”
I am VERY fortunate because my relationship with Becky is also a friendship and not just a working relationship. And like any other relationship…..work, family, friends not everyone sees things from the same angle. Where she might have more insight to something than I would or vice versa, it does not matter. We are adults and do not have to take to smearing or mudslinging. Perhaps you were out with friends late and thats why you are posting at 3am?
“The other thing that we all need to keep in focus, this pension plan was enacted by the state legislature back when the stock market and the economy were in a bull run and the sky was the limit. The economy has obviously changed. The state is only partially funding the plan, the individual Penna. school districts have been saddled with the remainder without really having any input or any control on how these costs have spiraled. This has resulted in school districts being forced to choose between what is best for the students or funding the pension plan. The school boards across the state need to address this problem with the legislature and insist that the legislature fund what they have mandated. But beyond that, the PSER plan needs to be reexamined and put in line with private sector pension plans. In the past, public sector jobs such as teaching positions were not known for their high pay but had great benefits; now it appears that they are high paying while retaining the great benefits.”
And you know what? This is something that needs to be brought up with legislators and not at the local level unfortunately.
It’s quite amazing how you like to try to keep looking backward at issues instead of trying to bring awareness or look for further information to try and help situations. That is what part of the problem is with this district…..people are not looking 1 year ahead let alone 5 years ahead as they should.
ASD (as much as people do not want to believe) is a business and needs to start being run like one. With long range plans, communication, and fiscal responsibility to the “stock holders”. If this were a publicly traded company, half of the stuff going on, would NOT be tolerated.
By scott_starr, March 14, 2010 @ 2:15 PM
@Elderman:
Please prove your “numbers” that the “savings of closing Elderton was never realized”.
If 25 positions were rationalized, at the minimum salary of $41K, PLUS $13 K in benefits that is $54K per position times 25 or $1.35 MM dollars! MINIMUM!
Also, by putting a valve on the boiler one could easily make 2 zones for heating, one for the Elementary School and one for the high school and the heating problem SOLVED.
Pennsylvania is ranked #16 in terms of average weekly wage, so it is natural that teacher salaries would be higher than other states.
And yet, with the economy in shambles, social security frozen etc. the ASD will OPEN a closed school. That is Fiscal insanity.
Lastly, why, Elderman are you not worried about students from this district who have to take remedial classes at universities such as IUP?
Why are you not worried about students who want to better themselves by going to Top Ranked National Universities, but due to our lack of curricula are shut out or feel they are inadequate for such Universities?
By Jen16226, March 14, 2010 @ 2:24 PM
PS……
Regarding mine and Becky’s “working relationship” that was actually YOUR idea!
You had stated back in January(I think….you might know since you know the dates and times of things posted…what are you rainman?) that RFullerton and I should compare notes before posting.
By youngermoreintelligentman, March 14, 2010 @ 2:47 PM
Elderman(Solak) even though you keep pleading ignorant with your “I am confused” statement, the rest of the readers are not so easily confused by your mistating of facts. Armstrong county isn’t as stupid as you seem to think!! I find it interesting how Elderman(Solak) fails to mention that he is the only board member to vote against the Teachers contract. Why is it he is so careful not to say a negative word against Stitt, Monroe and his other puppets??????
By DANBOY, March 14, 2010 @ 5:10 PM
Again ELDERMAN it amazes me how much you know of all the detailed interworkings of the ASD School Board. If I was (were)( Mr. Troth where are you?)Mr. Troth was my VERY IMPRESSIVE english teacher,not told by you and the KP I would swear you were a SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER.
Since you seem to know so much about the Board please tell me who was on the contract negotiations committee and if certain Directors conveniently avoided the negotiations?
By Bolt Upright, March 14, 2010 @ 7:05 PM
Some try to complain about the so-called excessive amount of starting teachers salary. Last week a story on the local tv news station reported that the Rivers Casino was starting table games and were hiring people to man these games and once hired would attend dealers school for a few weeks to learn the job. Starting salary was between 40 to $50,000 a year. So do we want card dealers to earn more than teachers? Does that seem right?
By rfullerton, March 14, 2010 @ 10:14 PM
rudy:
I am not sure of the exact number of teachers that were displaced by the closing of ehs. 25-30 sounds right (I will find out for sure for you) but most were “reabsorbed” into vacancies due to retirement or leaves of absence, as long term substitutes etc. I think only around 7 were officially furloughed of which some have already gotten jobs with other districts. The thing is though, those people are in positions that are in other buildings. Those positions are not going to disappear because a teacher is going back to EHS. Those positions will have to be filled by new hires in one way or another. The myth that the elderton teachers followed their students and will follow them back is just that, a myth.
By elderman, March 15, 2010 @ 1:26 AM
Reply to Bolt Uptight: Bolt, please send me the link to the local TV news story concerning the pay scale for the Rivers Casino employees, I would like to check the veracity of what you posted and perhaps contact the TV station for details. Specifically, I would like to see what Rivers Casino employees receive for a pension.
By Jen16226, March 15, 2010 @ 6:28 AM
Here you go Elderman,
http://www.riverscasinoteam.com/
Why not contact the casino itself instead of the news station.
Who knows? Maybe your findings can provide jobs for some people up here in Armstrong!
By Bolt Upright, March 15, 2010 @ 6:47 AM
Thanks Jen, but I wasn’t going to play his game. I wasn’t going to spend one second looking up anything. If he/she doesn’t know how to use Google, well I wasn’t going to do his work for him.
By Jan, March 15, 2010 @ 7:56 AM
Youngermoreintelligentman may be on to something- it is weird that Elderman uses the same techniques that Solak uses at meetings to twist statements around to serve his needs. I would have to also agree with Bolt Upright- if Elderman wants information, search for it yourself and enlighten us.
By scott_starr, March 15, 2010 @ 10:37 AM
to all:
Ask Elderman where’s the data to show that NO savings from Elderton has been realized.
By kwiss4, March 15, 2010 @ 11:31 AM
Rudytuesday,
I can find only one person who was released from elderton and that was the school nurse. All others are resignations or retires. There are no names listed under per 4. There are alot of reasignments.
By rudytuesday, March 15, 2010 @ 2:56 PM
Kwiss4,
There is not a list of names for Per 4 because they are part of Official Minutes.
By kwiss4, March 15, 2010 @ 4:17 PM
I can find no where any furloughs or demotions. All I can find is the resolution allowing to notify the the teachers of the potential furloughs.
By rfullerton, March 15, 2010 @ 4:59 PM
You can find out those furloughs/demotions etc from human resources at the admin. Fill out a “right to know” form and they will give them to you. There were absolutely furloughs and demontions from positions such as guidance counselor to teacher and principal back to teacher. I don’t have the exact numbers but I am sure they are available for the asking.
By way to go, March 15, 2010 @ 6:32 PM
The school nurse resigned upon graduating as a Nurse Practitioner for another job. She was not furloughed which is how they staffed a LPN in that position.
By Jan, March 15, 2010 @ 10:29 PM
Would someone like to explain the rationale of closing Kittanning Twp. Elementary because of low enrollment, and YET, we can re-open Elderton, with a projected budget ( this was stated at the board meeting this evening. Bear in mind this is projected- not an actual figure) of $2.4 million dollars and this school has low enrollment numbers. I’m scratching my head over this one— gosh, I hope I don’t have head lice!
By Jen16226, March 16, 2010 @ 1:49 PM
Oh I know hearing the lice again last night had me itching!!!
I do not get it either.
By rfullerton, March 16, 2010 @ 4:16 PM
Jan:
the $2.4 million is ONLY for staffing. It does not include all other expenditures to open the school nor does it consider ANY of the renovations planned. KT is being closed to increase numbers at Elderton. BUT…..isn’t KT a “community” school? Isn’t it bigger than elderton elementary and in better condition (I don’t know I have never been it’s just what I have heard). Doesn’t all research show that small class sizes should be realized at the elementary level rather than the secondary…just sayin’.
By Jan, March 16, 2010 @ 5:00 PM
rfullerton,
I recognized after I posted that the $2.4 million was only for staffing and other incidentals and that the price of renovations is rumored to be $24 million- I guess we’ll find out about this at the next board meeting next Monday.
As per the research on smaller class size for elementary schools- you are correct. (Sorry Elderman, I’m not posting all of that information) any one can do the research and read that small classes for elementary grades is essential to the learning process, where a student has assess to one on one instruction with the teacher, along with their peers.
As per community schools- surely you jist- the only schools exclusive to that “frame of mind is Jimmy-land and Elder-land.
By Bolt Upright, March 16, 2010 @ 6:22 PM
Reply to Eldertroll: Well I guess you’ll have to do what you do best, twist & shout the facts because the link was supply to you from someone else. You see I know what you are. You’re a Troll. Trolls don’t care to discuss the facts or debate the issues but to cause trouble. I don’t respond to Trolls. Others shouldn’t respond to Trolls either, that way you’ll either go away or up your Trolling. Don’t feed the Trolls!
By Jen16226, March 16, 2010 @ 10:06 PM
awwww Bolt! I wish there was another name than trolls!!!!
I used to loooooove those trolls on top of my pencils!!! You would twist the pencil around fast and make its hair fly all over!!!
By Bolt Upright, March 17, 2010 @ 8:02 AM
LOL. Let’s just say there are good trolls and bad trolls, but eldertroll is an internet troll. This is from Wikipedia:
“In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”
Here’s the link for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
There is also an affliction known as Internet troll personality disorder. Check this link to see the symptoms of this disorder: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Internet_troll_personality_disorder
Does this sound like eldertroll?
By elderman, March 17, 2010 @ 10:21 AM
Reply to Bolt Uptight: Bolt, you just can’t get it right.
By ToddLuke, March 17, 2010 @ 1:19 PM
@bolt
And this is why I think if you are bold enough to post that you should post under your name as opposed to some silly name as if you hide from YOUR opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
By Jan, April 5, 2010 @ 11:45 AM
I see from the report in the Indiana Gazette regarding the Pension Plan fund that Markilinski is quoted as saying that the district will not be doing a “bare-bones” renovation on Elderton. There you go- just spend that money- cost no option! Say, since he’s willing to spend the money- do you think he would be willing to pour millions of dollars into renovation at Ford City and Kittanning HS? More students to serve, and just as an aside- we’ve got science classes with NO labs. Not sure any of you have taken a science class, but it’s pretty darn hard to teach and facilitate learning when you can’t do the lab activities. I’m sure there are other examples of insuffient classrooms in this district- email MJM and tell him to “show us the money”!
By rfullerton, April 5, 2010 @ 4:37 PM
I am guessing that they will be saving all kinds of money shoving Smith busing at the district as well as the discount they will probably be getting for sharing HERO’s attorney and Blairsville-Saltsburg’s(Matta connection) contractor. I think we all should hang it up and just rename the ENTIRE district ELDERTON SCHOOL DISTRICT! It is pretty obvious that NONE of the other buildings will be getting any attention.
As far as insufficient classrooms, try KJHS! I am getting a little tired of spending my own money on science supplies for KJHS but what else can I do, the kids need it.