Architects Recommend Closing Schools and Building New
L.R. Kimball Project Manager Brian Hayes and his team recommended Armstrong School District board directors close five schools to save cost and plan for the future. Those schools include: Kittanning Junior High, Ford City Junior-Senior High, Kittanning Senior High, Shannock Valley Elementary and Kittanning Township Elementary.by Jonathan WeaverThe future of many Armstrong School District schools is uncertain after school directors reviewed their options with architects last night.In a special non-voting meeting, board directors heard various scenarios – including building a new junior-senior high - as to how the school district could be mapped out.Some of those in poor shape that architects recommended closing include: Kittanning Senior High, Kittanning Junior High, Ford City Junior-Senior High and Shannock Valley and Kittanning Township elementary schools.Architects recommended Shannock Valley and Kittanning Township students move to a renovated Elderton K-6 facility and high school students be split between West Shamokin and a new junior-senior high.L.R. Kimball Project Manager Brian Hayes explained why they recommended a new Elderton layout, one which would include adequate work spaces and close to 39 classrooms.“It’s really not on-par with the other high schools in the District,” Hayes said. “It lacks adequate outdoor high school athletic facilities – with no real room to add them – (and) houses the fewest number of students in grades 7-12. We believe this building should either be fully utilized or fully closed.“This program fits well in the Elderton building without any additions,” Hayes said.District Superintendent Dr. Stan Chapp endorsed the 7-12th grade school model (which he says is similar at the Freeport Area School District) by saying students have shown maturity and academic-success with the layout.
District Superintendent Stan Chapp said the building layout currently separates 7th and 8th graders from the senior high students, and has worked academically.
“We think the 7-8 combination has worked very well for us in this District,” Chapp said. “If we had a 7-12th building, we could still separate the 7-8th graders out in some term of design. I think it meets our students’ maturation levels and we are able to work with their individual needs at that level and I think our students have done well transitioning from a 7-8th grade level into 9th grade.”
School directors also have the option to close the K-12 complex altogether and build a new K-6 school.
Students from both elementary schools would feed into West Shamokin Jr. – Sr. High.
Board Vice-President Chris Choncek questioned whether to send all Elderton area students to West Shamokin due to possible future concerns over low capacity and unfair educational opportunities compared to a new facility at the other end of the County.
A proposed solution would be to break up students who now attend Kittanning Township depending on their location, with School Director D. Royce Smeltzer saying that some might be closer to the newer high school compared to West Shamokin.
Hayes recommended building the new junior-senior high after the 2010 renovation plans to renovate the three facilities fell through and to save building expense.
The cost to renovate Elderton and build this new school would cost approximately $69 million between construction and architect fees. Costs jump about $15 million if school directors choose to build a new K-6 school instead of renovating Elderton.
Before attending a proposed new junior-senior high school, students would continue to attend Lenape and West Hills Elementary and West Hills Intermediate.
Architects also considered consolidating the District into one 9-12 senior high school for upwards of $80 million. Options considering K-8th grade schools were eliminated.
No options take into effect cost of acquiring land for any new school.
School directors are to receive more options from architects regarding district administration office sites and schools for special-needs students at Kittanning Township Elementary at this Thursday’s regular caucus session.
Armstrong School District | jweaver February 3, 2012
By for the children, February 3, 2012 @ 9:16 AM
Surely this article is mistaken! There is a 1 missing from in front of the $69 million. The good Doctor and his trusted assistant Rosie guaranteed us that a new school could not be built for under $155 million and that the $80 million renovations was the most economical way to go. They wouldn’t mislead us!!
Do not hesitate, sign the papers now!! Build the new school in Ford City borough and call the sports teams Sabers if that is what it takes to keep the peace, but build it now. We still have the money to do so since Jimmy and Rosie failed in their efforts to handcuff the new board by loaning the money to other districts.
Let’s all take a hard look at what is best for the education of our children and grandchildren without bankrupting the homeowners. This is the first step to bringing ASD into the new century and possibly attracting new business into Armstrong County. Bravo to the new board.
By worthingtonman, February 3, 2012 @ 9:51 AM
Kudos to the new board. Entertaining true viable options for the district. Kinda takes away the hidden agenda option floated around. Keep working hard folks. That is better than the old board majority reopening a previously closed school in their first meeting.
By ASDpayer, February 3, 2012 @ 10:42 AM
Who would have thunk it. A school board meeting with no drama, no rustling of papers, no lectures, but options presented without fanfare. Some of the options are painful, some expensive, some emotional. But I commend the directors for listening and no bravado statements. Downsizing seems to be the future, and it will get the district right sized. Look for the crazies to weigh in with unsupported statements and accusations. Remember there are options presented, not pronouncements. Kimball et al are professionals and the work they have done is good work. I presume there will be time for public input. Good work ASD directors for working for civility in an emotional climate.
By goober, February 3, 2012 @ 10:44 AM
if building a new school would be more cost effective i would support it. the only thing as someone said before they need to bulldoze the closed schools so this circus of moving and reopening doesnt continue.
By Jan, February 3, 2012 @ 1:54 PM
Something else that should be considered: The current administration in Harrisburg is now talking about further cuts in education- if this happens, it will be imperative for this district to make budget cuts where they can- starting by closing schools and consolidating. I predict that the governor has this in mind if further budget cuts come our way. Kuddos to this current ASD board for acting in an intellectual manner- exploring all options for this district without any hidden agendas.
By Amandacrksd, February 3, 2012 @ 2:25 PM
Did I miss something in this district and county since last March. Did the district and county get some kind of windfall that has not been reported. Representative Jeff Pyle stated last March that this district could not afford the renovations or a new school due to the reduction of younger population and the increase of elderly population, it would be a tax burden that this district could not handle. What happened to the pension obligations that were talked about last March, do we not have to pay for them now. I do believe Mr. Pyle wanted the money to be given back not spent, how does this school board plan to pull this off. I would think Mr. Pyle would coming forward and opposing these ideas, I guess it will be interesting to see what he does. We will then see the true side of Mr. Pyle and lets not forget about Senator White, who also opposed the spending of this kind of money for any purpose!!! And I did print Mr. Pyle’s statement from his website where he states that he was not in favor of the renovations, but also was not in favor of building a new school.
By billbell, February 3, 2012 @ 3:43 PM
amandacracked-
The money is there because of the former board. It should have never been borrowed, but you can’t just give it back; it costs too much.
Maybe the new school will have a voodoo economics and math wing dedicated to solak- painted purple and gold, of course.
By for the children, February 3, 2012 @ 3:48 PM
@ Amandacrksd
The windfall you missed was the overwhelming results the last election.If you recall the good Dr attempted to give the money back. The cost involved was prohibitive to simply returning it and paying millions for nothing. Since we are saddled with the good Dr’s debt we may as well make the most of it. Besides, remodeling did absolutely nothimng to reduce staffing. By eliminating all the staffing that is duplicated and all the undersized classes throughout the district we should be able to offset a big portion of the annual payments involved for building new.
By worthingtonman, February 3, 2012 @ 4:02 PM
@Amandacrksd. Maybe you missed the whole part of it is going to cost us 40 million dollars to just give the money back? Let the process play out. Remember the whole 155 million dollar new school referendum the last board majority had put on the ballot? Maybe now you can see they were just blowing smoke up everyones butt. I am sure once the new board gets the cost estimate and the true savings that can be realized with true consolidation, the financial picture will be much clearer than it is now. As far as politicians go, they are supposed to pursue the will of the people that elected them. and I think the will of the people was made quite clear to them.
By jswanson, February 3, 2012 @ 5:12 PM
Nice job ASD directors. I stated previously something similar to Option 3 and it looks like it will cost the least. Call the new building KFC High School if KFC will pony up some money towards it’s construction. Thanks directors, keep up the good work.
Option 3 … Option 3 … Option 3.
By Amandacrksd, February 3, 2012 @ 5:56 PM
You totally overlooked what I said, Mr. Pyle stated we could not afford to use this money, period, no renovations, no new school. This all has to go through the PDE, what I am saying is, who says they will not stop this also, due to the burden that it will put on the taxpayers. You are right we cannot send the money back, but we can loan it to other sources, has that option even been looked at? And anyone who thinks that we can build a AAAA school for 85 million needs to go look at a few AAAA schools. If you are going to a AAAA then you must build a AAAA quality school. This will be just like the West Hills project, quote one figure and then keep coming back to the board for more money.
By rfullerton, February 3, 2012 @ 6:00 PM
Such a shame millions were already wasted by the prior board on renovations that will now be insignificant and on “investigations” that showed nothing….wonder what that fiasco ran the district…..so much wasted money already.
On another note, the plans sound productive. I definitely think that junior high and senior high should be separated for social reasons if nothing more. I would rethink sending Shannock to Elderton or KT though….such a long bus ride for such little kids…..
By Kittanning Lady, February 3, 2012 @ 6:23 PM
To give the money back to the bond holder it WOULD have cost 40 million because of a penalty, But, to offer the money to other school districts would have cost NOTHING!. The School District that would borrow the money from the Armstrong School District would pay anually to The Armstrong School District and then the Armstrong School District would pay off the bond annually. But this option has not been brought up by any of the board members WHY?
By Kittanning Lady, February 3, 2012 @ 6:31 PM
The cost of 155 million is not the cost of 1 school it included a school with a votech within athletic fields also a new kindergarden through 6th grade elem.school for Elderton.
By sickofpayingforit, February 3, 2012 @ 11:34 PM
I agree with most that this new board has shown some professionalism thus far. However, I am not ready to carve their busts into the cliff out by Buttermilk until I see the numbers and how building anything new is going to save me tax money. If it costs me more money, I do not support the move at all. I trust that this board will produce some numbers though.
Also, lets not forget that those architects are making a boatload of money off of our tax dollars and I am sure that the plans for all those new schools won’t be cheap either. They are basically salesman for their services and this should not be forgotten when making decisions based off of their “studies”.
By GetSmart, February 4, 2012 @ 7:02 AM
@ Kittanninglady:
So, you are saying that Jimmie and Rosie and their group actually did use the $155 million figure to mislead and deceive all of us?
Interesting.
Oh the tangled web they wove……
By ASDpayer, February 4, 2012 @ 9:25 AM
@kittanning lady
Well the money was borrowed at 4%. The current rate for bonds is 2.6%. So why would any other school district borrow from us rather than float their own bonds? Maybe it is a good idea to use it to build a new school. Notice the much lower cost of the hs, than Solak’s charade of a referendum.
By Lancret, February 4, 2012 @ 9:35 AM
I will wait and see about how the schools shake out, before commenting, but what about the administration building being built new out at West Hills!!!!!????
What?
You are closings and possibly consolidating to save money, but you are going to build a new administrative building at West Hills?
Come on!
I know there is plenty of debate about building the new high school, but this little change that is trying to be slipped in is ridiculous.
They will have plenty of old buildings to choose from and some are not that old. Let’s not give the administrative pharaohs special perks, because this is what got us in the bind in the first place.
No new administrative building! (period)
By JornJensen, February 4, 2012 @ 1:29 PM
sickofpayingforit – You just saved me a bunch of keystrokes – ditto everything that you have stated.
Don’t EVER believe that the hired architect is you ‘friend’ – he’s got his hand DEEP in your wallet.
Amandacrksd – What Jeff Pyle stated still applies. “this district could not afford the renovations or a new school due to the reduction of younger population and the increase of elderly population”, but we’re stuck with the loan – too expensive to give the money back. So, what are we to do?
Perhaps we should do as one school district in eastern Ohio did – spend the money and then file bankruptcy and ‘stiff’ the Commonwealth for the cash?
Anyone that believes that building a new school will bring in people is completely missing the boat. It takes jobs to bring in people – when the people come, then you need the schools. Its jobs that are needed. The same search for jobs that take Armstrong County’s young folks away – in search of jobs. What part of that don’t we get?
By Jerri, February 4, 2012 @ 2:31 PM
This board is a joke. Acting like they HAVE to spend this money when they know very well they can offer it to other school districts already starting building plans. And those districts would jump at it in a heartbeat because of the low rate it was borrowed at.
Funny these exact same architects that a year ago was touting the renovations, now are supporting closing schools….meaning they are supporting their own wallet. I’m sure when Bozo Berdell met with Kimball BEFORE he was even elected, he told them exactly what the Snyder’s wanted and they went to work on it.
I find it laughable that Kittanning Township Elementary is on the list of buildings to close when it is in better shape than all the other buildings mentioned. The previous board was going to use that for the maintenance and administration building, which made sense because of its central location. Do you know every time there’s a teachers inservice, we pay them the mileage to drive all over the district to where the meeting is? Apparently, Amy Lhote feels West Hills is the center of her universe as she insists the admin building should move there. Yes, Amy, you sure are looking at the WHOLE district….NOT.
It will be interesting to see how many lawsuits come out of this rush to build. Moving special needs kids to Elderton will result in the parents that are concerned about distance suing. If I lived in South Bend, I would be filing a federal lawsuit for discrimination ASAP. What are they going to do? We taxpayers will pay over $1.2 million for tuition to send those kids somewhere else, then pay additional for busing them. We also will have to make up the loss for reduction of subsidies in the education budget which is based per child (close to $2 million). On top of that, if I lived in South Bend with the kids in that area being forced to another school district, I sure as heck wouldn’t want to be paying taxes to Armstrong! I’d be suing to be out of this district altogether. Which means all that tax base gone.
It should be interesting to see how the Shannock Valley parents react to their kids being bused to Elderton. And Kittanning Township kids once again being split up from half their friends again just to suit keeping WS as a high school? They already lost their Plumcreek friends now their Kittanning Township friends too? If you need to fill up WS, take some of those Kittanning kids. Start with Choncek’s kids. See how they feel.
By Tankster, February 4, 2012 @ 4:36 PM
Build by Lenape Vo-Tech and get all your buildings consolidated into that one area for a senior high school. This is centralized for the district. Shut down all buildings in Kittanning (Jr. & Sr. High) and Ford City (Jr. & Sr. High). You already got West Shamokin for that area, turn that into a junior high only.
It only makes sense.
No more keeping other buildings open in the small towns.
No going out to West Hills to try and build some utopian campus.
Do what is right and make the move!
By jerry6, February 4, 2012 @ 7:57 PM
I have been in favor of a new high school from the beginning of all of this. Myself and a lot of other people went to school with grades 7-12 and I don’t see how this hurt anybody. Why do they have to be in separate schools. I think it would be a good idea to make Elderton High school an elementary school for KT and Elderton. Send the kids from KT to a new high school with Ford City and Kittanning kids and send the ones who live closer to Shannock, send them up there. We need fewer buildings that are full instead of ones with not many students attending. Keep up the good work new school board.
By VerySpecialPerson, February 5, 2012 @ 2:59 AM
@ASDtaxpayer… who are you trying to kid???? You are now taking the word of the same architects that gave Jimmy the figures he presented a year ago? You are taking the word of architects and forgetting the additional money we paid for West Hills and West Shamokin because the architects didn’t have their figures accurate and there were cost overruns??? Where is the new athletic fields they will want at the new school? How many gyms? I don’t mind considering a new school, but let’s play with the correct costs. As far as drama, no one challenged anyone because they are trying to figure out where to build the new admin building! Geez! Oh… one more thing… ask Kittanning and Ford City what the cost of their police departments will be to provide security for these “old” vacant buildings. I am sure no one has done an impact study on the communities involved here.
By GetSmart, February 5, 2012 @ 7:11 AM
Now that we are beyond the “election” stage and into the “idea” stage, I, for one have been pleased with the direction the new board has taken. “Clean sheet of paper” phase , (or white board), is now upon us and this is the most critical phase of our district moving forward. (And, by the way, for the naysayers, I did not see a “West Hills High School” on the board.)
Fortunately, we are able to throw out all of the preconceived ideas of the previous board and start anew. It is a time when thinking out of the box, innovative and cost efficient ideas, etc. need to be explored.
For instance, if we are to build a new high school for Kit., FC and part of Elderton for 7-12, there is concern about interaction of Jr. high with high school students. Has the engineer looked at a design that would have one centralized complex, with office, cafeteria kitchen, shops, auditorium, library, physical plant, etc. in the middle, servicing both Jr. high and senior high. Then let’s say Sr. high classrooms on the left and Jr. high classrooms on the right. This would keep, for the most part, the Jr. & Sr. high kids separate, yet let both have their own identities and be more efficient and cost effective than 2 separate buildings, (like we now have at West Hills)?
To go a little farther, one example would be one cafeteria kitchen servicing separate Sr. & Jr. high eating areas.
We need to be sure that the ideas being submitted by the architecture / engineering firms involved are most concerned about a state of the art education facility, cost effectiveness and a functional and solid structural design that will stand the test of time and not be throwing away money on “eye candy”.
There are many people who did believe that the $155 million price tag previously thrown around and used during the election were true and accurate. There are others, like myself, that felt that the costs like those at Bethel Park HS were more realistic. Is this the same architectural firm that is now giving these estimates? If so, how do we know these are rock bottom prices, if the $155 million price was apparently inflated. Maybe we need a second opinion.
By Kittanning Lady, February 5, 2012 @ 9:10 AM
Jerri is absolutely right,1.2 million lost because of paying tuition for the southbend students,5,000 per student lost in subsity,southbend has around 160 students in that area.Bussing costs would also go up to bus the students .Add it up people we would lose a lot of money MILLIONS!Who is going to make up for the loss? WE ARE THE TAX PAYERS!!!
By JornJensen, February 5, 2012 @ 9:41 AM
Lancret – I re-read the article – I saw nothing about a new administration building. When or where did that come out? Perhaps in the meeting and the reporter didn’t report it?
What in the world would a new administration building do for education imrprovement and taxpayer cost-reduction?
The LAST thing we’d need is a new administration building to help our situation. If administration needs a new facility, put them into one of the school buildings that we downsize into and let Sheetz put a competing gas station on that corner to compete with their own station.
I can’t believe that I’m hearing ‘new administration building’. Is this for real?
By whoknew, February 5, 2012 @ 10:30 AM
Lenape offering half day options has to be part of this overall picture. This is the same old picture wrapped in a different bow. None of the se options are new, except for the closure of shannock elem.
By Kittanning Lady, February 5, 2012 @ 10:34 AM
@ GetSmart the 155 million was not made up by Solak it was the figure the architects came up with! @ ASDpayer the rate for bonds is 2.6% REALLY!!! do you know the bond council personally to get these quotes?
By JohnK, February 5, 2012 @ 11:42 AM
Jerri,
What’s a joke is that it matters about KT kids losing half of their friends…sending friends to different schools. The elderly who can’t afford their taxes aren’t worried about friends..The people in this area losing their jobs aren’t worried about the KT kids’ friends.. The people of this area need to worry about common sense… what makes the most sense, what saves the most money..and what will be best for the entire district. That would be using the money to build a new school, consolidate kids into a couple of buildings..Time to move on. These kids will keep their friends and make new ones.. With facebook, texting, twitter and everything else out there..They will keep in touch. Less drama please.
By kwiss4, February 5, 2012 @ 12:36 PM
One option two option three option Kerr option!
By Jerri, February 5, 2012 @ 1:51 PM
JohnK-Your attitude is the exact reason this school district is a mess. Why should any one area’s kids be the ONLY ones in the district to be split from their elementary school kids? If they are going to build their coveted new school, then they should have the decency to be fair to all. Send all the Elderton kids to WS or send them all to the new high school. Our district has closed dozens of schools over the last twenty years. No savings, costs only increased, and yet we are still griping that we have too many schools in a 436 square mile area! Once the new school is built and taxes go up (which they will) then West Shamokin will become the scapegoat and those kids will be sent to the new school anyway. It may not happen immediately, but it will happen as is the history of this school district. West Shamokin was cheaply built with split rock, not brick, and on unstable land. The building already has had windows and cracks repaired. Eventually this building will be unstable or it will be repurposed (elementary or junior high). Just move all the Elderton kids to the new school now and save the trouble. I’m assuming you are from an area where moving around won’t affect any kids you actually care about. West Shamokin is closer to Kittanning than Elderton. Close the junior high and move some of the Kittanning kids to West Shamokin. That makes more sense and you don’t have to lose millions worrying about what to do with the South Bend kids. A new centrally located school would be closer than West Shamokin any day.
Everyone is concerned about taxes everywhere. It is the state legislature that forces property taxes. Not the school board. The state gives them no choice. The school districts taxes are 3 mills less then they were in 2002 when our taxes went up 8 mills to overbuild West Hills Elementary. Where were your concerns then? Oh that’s right, no drama unless things don’t go your way.
By mcfee, February 5, 2012 @ 2:03 PM
There goes single A status for West Shamokin’s football team. They better take advantage of it for the next two years before WPIAL reclassifies again and with the possibility of regaining the Elderton population only this time with the KT students also.
By ASDpayer, February 5, 2012 @ 2:13 PM
@Kittanning Lady
Bonds are publicly traded. You can look on line any time of day and see that bonds in western PA are selling for 2.6%. You can talk to a bond trader too. You can read the newspaper (Wall Street Journal) and see what new issues are going for also.
By mcfee, February 5, 2012 @ 2:13 PM
On second thought, it was stated that if the Elderton students were put into the new high school then at some point the smaller WSHS couldn’t possibly be getting the same educational opportunities as the larger new school – after rereading my previous post, I say include the Elderton students in a new HS and out of WSHS anyway and let WSHS keep their Single A status for as long as possible. Worry about their educational opportunities later, obviously it doesn’t matter to the admin, students or their parents.
By Lancret, February 5, 2012 @ 3:12 PM
Mr. Jensen:
If you read the other reports from the meeting, you will see this bag of goods that they are going to try and sale to the taxpayers in moving the administration functions to the West Hills Primary School.
I do not want to disrespect the KP, so I am not going to provide links.
They said they are running out of room in the Manor Twp. facility. Okay, so they are going to move into this West Hills complex???? It is too big for the one facility but they can movie it into the West Hills complex where they are utilizing all the space.
I can understand needing more space than what the Manor Twp. facility can provide. That is fine, but then without any debate or waiting to see how things shake out with the different options, they immediately come to the conclusion to put this in West Hills where there is already talk that, yes, they will probably need to “add-on” to accommodate the administration functions.
This is nothing more than a blatant power-grab to capture more of the high-income tax revenue from the district.
One person said it will be easier for the admin. personnel to be linked to Rt. 28!!! Wah! Wah! Wah!
Here we go…..the power-grab is on so hold on to your wallets and your municipalities wallets, because it is already turning into a free-for-all of winnners and losers!!
By wglover, February 5, 2012 @ 4:53 PM
In the not too distant past many of my municipal presentations stressed that infrastructure was not a guarantee that the area would thrive or even stop declining; but lack of installing needed infrastructure was nearly a guarantee of continued decline. The same goes for our school situation. The resources and potential in our area are greater than most. The renovation projects could have helped to spring board our area into prosperity. The synergy at Kittanning with the YMCA was electric. The other schools could also have been a rolled out red carpet for direct and indirect growth promised by natural gas development and use. (We do need local and state government to foster use here in chemical plants, plastics, clean power plants, public and private vehicle conversion, glass and metal production… and not pipe the resource to an export terminal or new pipeline to Texas. Drilling is a important but small part of the potential for our area and region. Why our area lags behind others is another important topic.) But some people have decided otherwise. Now is the time to choose a second best option.
ASD and the area need to be aware when considering options that time is not on the side of building a new school, but time is on the side of renovating. The IRS, and or the bond holders, and or the Federal Department of Education, and or the Federal District Attorney’s Office, or others can legitimately be expected to come knocking on the District’s door pressing for timely use of the bond funds. Also knocking at the door is the need to do something with the well and long documented, deteriorated facilities at some of the schools. Renovations to existing developments (school buildings) do not require or are not nearly as hindered by these requirements. The existing renovation projects have substantially met the involved requirements and could be modified for implementation in the much nearer future.
New development and construction projects need to contend with multiple permitting requirements and their permitting review times (as listed in “Guide to DEP Permits”):
1. Act 537 Planning, 180 days
2. NPDES Clean Water Act Permitting, 120 days (may or may not be needed by the District or the Municipal Authority involved)
3. WQM Part 2 Permitting, 90 days
4. 105 Encroachments Permitting, 130 days
5. 102 Construction and Post Construction Stormwater (NPDES) Permitting, 150 Days (more involved now since the November 2010 revisions)
While some can be done concurrently, most of the above need to be done in sequence (or can be appealed). The review time does not include the time needed to prepare the applications or the time needed to respond to raised deficiencies. Most require public notice and publication requesting comments, and are subject to the Public Participation Policy in Permit Application Reviews. If sufficient concern is raised by anyone, this policy can require added time. Each is subject to appeal to the Environmental Hearing Board (EHB), Authorizations or actions routinely include the below language:
Any person aggrieved by this action may appeal, pursuant to Section 4 of the Environmental Hearing Board Act, 35 P.S. Section 7514, and the Administrative Agency Law, 2 Pa. C.S., Chapter 5A, to the Environmental Hearing Board, Second Floor, Rachel Carson State Office Building, 400 Market Street, P.O. Box 8457, Harrisburg, PA 17105-8457, 717-787-3483. TDD users may contact the Board through the Pennsylvania Relay Service, 800-654-5984. Appeals must be filed with the Environmental Hearing Board within 30 days of receipt of written notice of this action unless the appropriate statute provides a different time period. Copies of the appeal form and the Board’s rules of practice and procedure may be obtained from the Board. The appeal form and the Board’s rules of practice and procedure are also available in Braille or on audiotape from the Secretary to the Board at 717-787-3483. This paragraph does not, in and of itself, create any right of appeal beyond that permitted by applicable statutes and decisional law.
IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE THIS ACTION, YOUR APPEAL MUST REACH THE BOARD WITHIN 30 DAYS. YOU DO NOT NEED A LAWYER TO FILE AN APPEAL WITH THE BOARD.
IMPORTANT LEGAL RIGHTS ARE AT STAKE, HOWEVER, SO YOU SHOULD SHOW THIS DOCUMENT TO A LAWYER AT ONCE. IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD A LAWYER, YOU MAY QUALIFY FOR FREE PRO BONO REPRESENTATION. CALL THE SECRETARY TO THE BOARD (717-787-3483) FOR MORE INFORMATION.
A year or more can pass before an actual EHB hearing date. Some of these have parallel Federal permitting that also have public participation and appeal provisions. Please note the local third party law suit like that against PPG filed in Federal court could complicate the District’s plans.
In addition to the above, a new school or new renovation design would need to contend with:
A. State Department of Education process (?? days) if state funding is considered
B. Design (120 to150 or more days), ~30 days to change an existing design
C. Required Referendum ( ?? days, by the time the bids come in at least local demand will require this)
C. Bidding and Award (60 to 120 days)
D. Construction (360 to 720 days)
Added to this are the numerous additional tasks from local to county approvals, Penndot HOP and other approvals, land negotiations or condemnation , utility coordination…..
The earliest you could occupy a new school building if everything went right and there was minimal opposition and if started now; is Fall 2017.
With problems and vigorous opposition, a new school occupy date could be years more to never.
Whatever the choice people have the right to oppose that plan. The District’s choice in addition to meeting educational objectives needs to minimize opposition, be the result of a open and sincere effort, have a chance of being completed within four years, and not bias against any area. The two high school concept fails this criteria.
Some on the board did a very good job on activating (or scaring) the largest voting population in our area (and region in general)- the retired with fixed incomes. They can be trusted to vote against anything that is sold or has a chance to increase taxes. “Stop the Madness of the New School or Project” will be easy to resell.
There is the Elderton area that had some 2,700 tax paying residents sign a petition (look in the Distrct files) to leave the District rather than close Elderton. How many board members’ total votes would have to be combined to equal 2,700? The District needs these people to not oppose what is proposed. (You have a chance with an Elderton K to 8 (or 9) and a central high school located in Kittanning Township along 422 or nearby Manor or Rayburn Twps. A temporary closing of the Elderton building will be seen as a bait and switch. The Elderton building can remain in use during a construction project.)
The best resolution to the District’s timing and school building problems is use of some or all of the existing renovation projects, modified or not.
By Kittanning Lady, February 5, 2012 @ 8:48 PM
I am just waiting..WestShamokin graduated only around 72 students when they were merged with Elderton.That is only around 20 more students than they have now.Parents who have children attending WestShamokin High school BEWARE!!! Do you think this NEW BOARD will leave your school alone? NO WAY!!!! With only 70 or so students graduating?( Less than 100 if merged with Elderton)
By Kittanning Lady, February 5, 2012 @ 8:58 PM
FordCity lost..Eljer..PPG..NOW the high school.Small businesses rely on the school for their business.I can see it now driving through FordCity boarded up businesses and closed high school.School jobs lost!People will move out .So what if they build a new school! No one will be left to attend it!We with fixed and low paying jobs will have to leave because of higher taxes to pay for this fiasco!
By Jan, February 5, 2012 @ 9:21 PM
One of the options from the first meeting with the architects was to attach the admin. building to a new high school. In most districts, you will find this. If they decide to build a new school on 422, that would make the admin. building centrally located also.
By JornJensen, February 5, 2012 @ 9:32 PM
Lancret – Well, I found the administration building thing on page 4 of the other major local news publication. This is just beyond belief.
Further, why are we paying Kimball and Reynolds to do the analysis that our administrators should be doing? Can’t our administrators perform this function?
By JornJensen, February 5, 2012 @ 9:36 PM
Jerri – The students adjust to these changes much better than the adults do. Perhaps a panel of students can make the proper choice for the downsizing and repair of the ASD and keep the adults out of it – the students just might have the best solutions.
By worthingtonman, February 5, 2012 @ 10:59 PM
If the Administrative staff is out growing their space, then they need to stop growing and downsize along with the district. With less students you should need less administrative staff. with all businesses that I have been involved with, when you down size the work force and the need for your service drops, you also trim the fat from the top. and Jerri (Jimmy). Are you really suggesting decisions made for the district should rest on not separating friends??? Really? That is by far the most asinine comment I have ever heard. Young kids make friends far easier than adults do. Give me a break.
By worthingtonman, February 5, 2012 @ 11:03 PM
@kittanninglady. The past board majority asked for that 155 million figure purposely asking that a new vo- tech school be built into the new school. Ignoring the fact that Lenape would still be there. That was misleading. A dirty political trick that backfired. The taxpayers are smarter than that.
By Tankster, February 5, 2012 @ 11:05 PM
@GetSmart
They have not mentioned if a new high school is ON or OFF the table for West Hills. Can you show me where they removed it?
By scott_starr, February 6, 2012 @ 12:29 AM
Let Admin work under the same deplorable conditions as the students have.
No new Admin building!
By GetSmart, February 6, 2012 @ 6:21 AM
@ kittanninglady:
I never said Jimmie and Rosie made up the $155 million number. I said they used that figure to nislead and decieve all of us. Come on now…….”it inclcuded a votech within….”.
What I have said all along is that the numbers like those used at Bether Park were more realistic.
By JohnK, February 6, 2012 @ 8:03 AM
Jerri,
You missed the point entirely, as usual. You were whining about them losing their friends, not being able to go to school with their friends anymore.
THAT is the attitude that got this district in trouble. This warm and fuzzy community school thinking needs to be doused with a big bucket of reality. Too many half empty schools, not enough tax dollars to support that. There is no industry here. Consolidation is the only option.
By rfullerton, February 6, 2012 @ 10:02 AM
Jorn:
What an excellent suggestion….a group of students from each school. Start with the group in the article about the dance marathon…all excellent students both academically and socially…I am sure the other schools can come up with similar.
By nonamerequired, February 6, 2012 @ 11:13 AM
I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but perhaps the new school board can have a civilized discussion, because they already know they are working for a common, ultimate goal. I am afraid of what it is. As far as the budget for new construction/ new building being below what the previous board floated around, it is only a budget. I happen to have some knowledge in planning and construction, and 9 times out of 10, real life kicks in and the budget is blown. Paper plans, and real life problems are generally two different things. Someone remind me, how much did West Hills go over?
By JornJensen, February 6, 2012 @ 12:49 PM
wglover – Excellent presentation! I did not realize that a new school would take that long – but, then, I’m also not in favor of a new school, so, to me, that long time lag is not an issue.
I do want to better understand your idea of renovation. If it is renovation in a vastly downsized and consolidated system and removal of un-needed buildings, personnel, etc., then I am in agreement with you. If it is a keep-everything and fix-it-all scenario, then I heartily disagree with you – that would just lead us further down the trail of bankruptcy.
I agree with you that “The resources and potential in our area are greater than most.” We need to put those resources and potential to work in the form of jobs – jobs that bring people into Armstrong County.
Again, excellent presentation. You obviously put a lot of work, study and thought into it.
By futureconcened, February 6, 2012 @ 1:22 PM
Oh my, where to start? So much misinformation! That is a direct result of moving the board meetings to Thursday so they cannot be viewed live by the public!
First – the Admin Building. The architects offered several locations for the building. They stated several times that the Admin. Building would not receive any State reimbursement if it were built as a stand alone building. When it is inside a school building or attached to a school, it is constructed under school requirements so that if necessary, the area can be used for students and the Admin moved to outside offices.
The West Hills Primary was used as an option because the Architects said it was under-utilized. They said they could partition off an area for the offices.
It was also included in an option at the Elderton complex along with the K-6 Elementary School. They said that there would be enough space at Elderton to include it in the reconfiguration.
They also said it could be included in the Present Kittanning High School if it was converted to a 7-8 facility.
The other option was to include it in the newly constructed High School in any configuration they chose (7-12, 9-12, 10-12).
Regarding the price of a new High School, the figures did not include the cost of land acquisition. The cost for athletic facilities was an add-on of 4.5 million dollars. If the One High School Option was chosen, it would move the school into AAAA sports facilities and would raise the price to 5.5 million because we would need to build a “stadium”.
The One School Option would move students from the West Shamokin HS and would then increase the amount of underutilized space which then reduced the reimbursement from the state.
The discussion was about options for configuration only. The Architects stated that they eliminated some of the “white board” options in consultation with the Administration because of the impact they would have on curriculum. The Board then directed the District Financial consultants to come back this coming Thursday with information on how each of the options could be financed. They also asked Administration to come up with estimates of the staff reductions and savings.
The one step that was missed in my opinion was looking at the transportation costs for each of the options listed.
On one other note, the Lenape Tech’s decision to offer half day to their member district’s students raises questions that need to be answered before ASD can decide on a vision for the district. How much will this effect transportation costs? How will it effect home school scheduling? How will it effect staffing? More importantly, when did the JOC vote to go this route? When did the welding class that a board members son attends become part of the pilot program?
You all really need to go to the school board meetings. All news reporting is limited in how much of the story they report. You need to demand that the meeting be returned to a time when they can be broadcast live so we all hear what is actually said.
And regarding sending South Bend Twp students as tuition students to another school, I live in South Bend Twp and I view this option as “Taxation without Representation”.
By futureconcened, February 6, 2012 @ 2:48 PM
I forgot to mention – the Architects stated that locating the Admin. at WH Primary would be a problem for the School Board. He said that they would need to hold meetings “offsite” to have a space large enough to accommodate the public.
By swilson, February 6, 2012 @ 3:18 PM
@kittanninglady
Would you please stop with the scare tactics? If West Shamokin needs closed or used in another capacity than so be it, we can’t continue to maintain all the schools at the current price tag. Have you forgotten about the looming pension crisis? Our costs will only continue to climb if we maintian our current model. The point the “renovation” crowd constantly misses is “operating costs”. The only real way to make a large impact on those costs is to consolidate the schools. Let me explain in simple terms… If you owned an old car that costs $300 a month to maintain and you could buy a new car that would cost $200 a month to maintain. Why wouldn’t you save yourself the cash and get the new car? A large reduction in operating costs associated with school closures could very well pay for bond payment and then some. I would rather my tax money go to the improvement of our childrens’ education than go to maintaining antiquated buildings with less opportunity for very few students.
By jerry6, February 6, 2012 @ 4:57 PM
I personally know of kids who wanted to stay at Ford City when Elderton closed. They made friends and made the basketball team. Some had no transportation to Ford City and some were denied by the school board to transfer. So, people saying that kids will miss there friends, are blowing smoke. You don’t know what you are talking about. Give the kids some credit. They did not want to go back to Elderton. You people have to get with this century and not be afraid of change. We need fewer buildings because we have fewer students. Build a new high school and bulldoze down Ford City and Elderton if yu don’t use Elderton as a elementary school. Why not add rooms onto KT elementary school instead of talking of building a new one at Elderton.
By Lancret, February 6, 2012 @ 5:51 PM
@ Jan
If that is the case, then there should be NO plans to move out to West Hills Primary anytime soon. They can be cramped a little before everything is decided upon.
I see this as putting them out at West Hills and then in a year or two, we are going to hear the whining about not having enough space and the schools needs to expand so let’s just build them a new site right on that campus. O, ho-hum, another day….another tax dollar.
Stop the madness! No new administrative building!
How much more space do they need? Find out what how much more space they need and expand on what they got now or find some vacant building and do a little renovation.
The focus is on the schools and the kids. It is not time to start building things just because it is the “in” thing to do.
This is a travesty. This board needs to step up. Do not try and slide things like this in. What about the plan to put the admin. out in KT? There HAS to be a better option out there. Not all of the buildings are beyond repair. Start slicing some positions in the admin. and you would be fine right where you are at. Consolidation and cutting should start at the top.
By rfullerton, February 7, 2012 @ 12:02 AM
HMMMM….interesting Bill….looks like yet another way to get people out there to oppose any projects that the new board suggests so that we can all go back to the same old, same old…..nice!
By Kittanning Lady, February 7, 2012 @ 5:26 AM
ANTIQUATED BUILDINGS DO NOT EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN TEACHERS DO! AS FAR AS BUILDING A NEW SCHOOL AND BULL DOZING DOWN UNUSED BUILDINGS WHAT ABOUT INCLUDING ALL .ALWAYS WITH THE ELDERTON AND FORDCITY BUILDINGS YOU PEOPLE SAY, WHAT ABOUT ALL THE UNUSED BUILDINGS? I’m not saying to do this,I am just telling those who do say this ,what is good for some should be for all.NO NEW SCHOOL!!!!!! Fix up what we have use money for books and education!!!
By Kittanning Lady, February 7, 2012 @ 5:33 AM
AMY LHOTE,REARIC,CHONCEK,LOBBY,CLOSE,ROBB,BERDELL, ALL NEW BOARD MEMBERS!!!!!!NO NEW SCHOOL !!!!NO NEW SCHOOL!!!!! NO NEW SCHOOL!!! WE ARE WATCHING!!! AND WE ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE DIRECTION YOU 7 ARE GOING!!!! NO NEW SCHOOL!!!!!
By JornJensen, February 7, 2012 @ 6:11 AM
futureconcerned – Thanks for your explanation in your comment. Your understanding and explanation of the admin building thing starts to make sense – especially if the district can sell off that street corner up in Ford Cliff. As I’m one of those interested in downsizing and getting rid of buildings, if we downsize admin into an existing building and get rid of the present admin building, then I’m in favor of that.
Transportation costs IS a big number and needs to be kept in all choices considerations.
By JornJensen, February 7, 2012 @ 12:34 PM
rfullerton – Thank you for taking my suggestion seriously. It is a serious suggestion that I doubt many would take seriously.
In many years in industry, I have been involved in employee involvement to help turn problem companies around. When management actually learns that employees want to help solve problems and actually do have good ideas, then a company can prosper. It is tough for management to admit that they don’t have all of the answers, after all, they are ‘the all-knowing’, so many just take the dictatorial route and pound the fist on the desk and make a decision.
Look at students as ‘employees’ in the school ‘company’. Challenge them with this involvement and give them the data to work with – the cost per pupil, population per school, projected future population per school, distance between current schools, transportation cost, teacher cost, healthcare, pension, the $80 million that we have that we either use and pay off or give back at some multi-million dollars loss, the number of buildings we have, HVAC costs, water, sewer, on and on, and then challenge them for some creative solutions.
Might just be surprised with what some sharp students come up with – even ‘team’ some students for a collaborative solution. This is a big challenge that ‘management’ hasn’t solved yet. Yes, I know they’re working on it with architects, project managers, administration, school board and so forth.
By Jerri, February 7, 2012 @ 1:52 PM
JohnK-No, I’m afraid you are the one that missed my point. What I am talking about is that you will have one group of children that will attend an small elementary school where they have formed bonds and then in seventh grade, arguably the most difficult year of a child’s education, be thrown into a new school where they do not know most of the kids there. You can use the old “warm and fuzzy feeling” all you want. That’s nothing more than a cop out for people with no other argument to say. I mean really, that would be like saying your pro-consolidation attitude is nothing more than a selfish desire to have quad a football in your own area, and that surely isn’t the case, is it?
And by the way, the previous school board’s plan did not raise taxes and consolidated several school buildings (KT into Elderton, KJHS into Kittanning, Admin and Maintenance building into KT) and kept attendance areas in place. Therefore benefitting all communities and the issue of distance and busing costs were moot. Can you say that for the “one or two high school plan”? Don’t think so?
By Jerri, February 7, 2012 @ 2:07 PM
By the way, I would like someone to explain to me how the same architectural firm that gave the previous school board the numbers for the referendum last year can come up with a new high school and a renovated elementary for so much less? The $155 million figure was based on the last serious new school discussions decided by the ASD’s Charette at current costs. To avoid argument over the technical componant, take out those figures and the new school/Elderton k-6 plan was still aroung $120 million! So how is it only $69 million less than a year later??? The report from Kimball Architects, Reynolds Construction, and Piper Jaffrey bonds people from March 2011 can be obtained easily from the ASD to verify this. So can the charette information.
Which leads to a few other questions. Why was it that a year ago, athletic facilities were estimated at $10 million and now its $4.4 million to $5.5 million? And that $5.5 million includes a quad a stadium! Something smells here.
Also, when the ASD had their charette in Fall 2007, the cost for a new high school grades 9-12 was something like $92.7 million! That was based on costs per square foot vs. area necessary for the amount of students attending. That was almost 5 years ago and did not include land acquisition or athletic facilities. I don’t think it included soft costs either. Are we supposed to believe that the economy has improved so much that now we can build a new school for tens of millions less now? Hmmmm.
Perhaps people should go to the “followthemoney.org” website and do some investigating. Type in L R Kimball PAC, Don White, Jeff Pyle, Snyder’s etc. Maybe this might help make sense of it all.
By billybob65, February 7, 2012 @ 2:36 PM
The problem with the whole county is that there is an attitude with a lot of the leaders of this county that the West Hills area is the only area worth investing in. Look at what that attitude has gotten us over the last 30 years. One of our biggest employers is Walmart and the towns are left to die as we bank on the West Hills pipe dream. I can just imagine someone in South Bend trying to sell their house. Telling perspective buyers that their kids will be bussed to Apollo or Indiana but they will pay Armstrong taxes! They might as well pack up and leave now while they can maybe make a decent sale.
It’s well known the attitude Amy Lhote has towards Ford City and she’s told many people she wanted a swimming pool because she was sick of seeing her kid swim in other school’s pools. Her insistance that an administration building be put into West Hills is just typical of her attitude.
By ASDpayer, February 7, 2012 @ 7:03 PM
@Kittanning Lady
Well we hear your shouting. Now lessen the volume and present a clear and coherent argument for your point of view. O, and skip the ” I heard…” line of attack.
By scott_starr, February 8, 2012 @ 4:52 AM
@Billybob:
I’ve know Amy Lhote for 25 years, her interest is only in providing the best education possible to Armstrong.
Amy’s husband is from Ford City, he was a rather good quarterback if I remember. If what you say is true there must be some interesting dinner conversation at their house.
By scott_starr, February 8, 2012 @ 4:57 AM
@Jerri:
To answer your question:
2012: Major recession, interest rates 1%
housing boom
low unemployment
By scott_starr, February 8, 2012 @ 4:59 AM
something happend to my post in answer to Jerri.
That is not what I wrote
By Kittanning Lady, February 8, 2012 @ 5:18 AM
I don’t have to “skip the ..”I heard ..” line .I am not attacking anyone.Who do you THINK you are to tell people what to do or THINK.I am clear on my point.NO NEW SCHOOL!
By Kittanning Lady, February 8, 2012 @ 5:27 AM
@billybob65, Your right! Amy Lhote does comment about wanting a swimming pool for her kids. So much so she argued with a patient at work about it! Let’s just say she lost that patient. They came to her for help not a lecture on school board issues. Let’s just say this patient and their family will no longer be at her place of work any more. To argue with a heart patient my oh my.She needs to learn to separate the two. But from what is being talked about it seems to be hard for her.
By billbell, February 8, 2012 @ 6:47 AM
Maybe the price is so much less this time because the architects were guided by the former board to figure grossly misleading and inaccurate costs, lest they wouldn’t get paid.
Sort of like the grossly incompetent business manager who never said a peep about the district being in dire financial straights when the former board was in, but all of a sudden sang like a canary when new board came.
By The Phantom, February 8, 2012 @ 7:34 AM
Billbell….. If you are right and the architects were guided by the former board to mislead us, could this not happen again with the new board? After all EVERYONE has an agenda in this.
By newvoice, February 8, 2012 @ 9:15 AM
TIME TO STOP >>>GOING AND DOING BUSINESS AT ALL BUSINESSES THAT SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS IN FAVOR OF SUPER SCHOOL>>>HAVE AND ARE ASSOCIATED WITH…..
By JornJensen, February 8, 2012 @ 12:29 PM
So, to Jerri, BillBell, The Phantom and the school board, I ask, again, the question I asked above – why are we paying Kimball and Reynolds to do anything for us? Are they the only people that have the answers for both the previous board and the current board?
By futureconcened, February 8, 2012 @ 1:25 PM
The Architects started the meeting by talking about each existing school and making recommendations for each. From my notes:
Dayton Elementary – 80% Pine twp, balance Wayne & Dayton. Has extra Capacity. Bldg. is in good condition. Recommend – maintain with no expansion.
West Shamokin – Newest bldg., very good condition, designed as high school, does not fit primary program, has capacity, can house Elderton HS students. Recommendation – maintain – no work needed.
Shannock Elem. – Oldest bldg, last renovation 1972. 80% of students from Cowan-Shannock, Rural Valley. Recommend closing and splitting students between Dayton Elementary and Elderton Elementary.
Kittanning Twp – Aged school built 1954, addition 1972. 80% of students from Kittg Twp. Houses special needs students, most centrally located school. Located 9.2 miles form Lenape and 8.7 from Elderton Elementary. Recommend closing.
Elderton K-12 Good condition. Needs investment. Not on par with the other high schools. Fewest Students 7-12. Either fully utilize or close. Could be converted to k-6 adding students from Shannock Valley and Kittg Twp schools. Could house about 1100 students requiring 48 regular classrooms, 6 kindergarten classrooms. No addition needed. Could be used to house District Admin. and special needs students.
Lenape – new. 70% neighborhood school. 18 municipalities feed into the school. Recommend – maintain – no work needed.
West Hills Primary – K-3. 52% East Franklin and Kittg Borough with 17% coming from 30 municipalities. Excess Capacity. Could be used to house special needs students or District Administration.
West Hills Intermediate. 50% neighborhood school. At Capacity. Recommendation – maintain.
That’s where the individual analysis stopped. Then the discussion went to NEW HIGH SCHOOL.
I asked the Architects after the meeting why they didn’t discuss the condition of the other schools and they said “because the voters voted down renovation.” Funny I thought they voted down a new school on the referendum. There was never a plan for Kittanning, Ford City and Elderton other than a new school presented! Ford City was never mentioned as a possible Junior High only Kittanning Sr. High. If you think that all options were presented then you were mislead.
By ShannockMom, February 8, 2012 @ 1:31 PM
I’ve never posted before but myself and some of my neighbors want answers that maybe someone here may have.
When was it decided to send our Shannock Elementary children to Elderton? We are all confused that this is even being suggested.
We voted for Stan Berdell because we didn’t want to pay for a new high school. Everyone around our area said Stan would look out for our elementary and it would get renovated! We were also told Rose Stitt wanted to build a new high school. I found out afterward that Rose Stitt never wanted a new high school and now it seems we’ve been lied to.
What is the real story? Does anyone know? I wanted to email my board director but there is no contact information listed on the school district website.
By samkirk, February 8, 2012 @ 1:43 PM
@scott_starr We are six weeks into 2012. Are you telling us that the economy has improved so drastically since 2011 that now we can afford to spend this money? Wow, I’m selling house and movin’ on up!!!!!
By Jerri, February 8, 2012 @ 4:13 PM
scottstarr-I disagree with you about economic conditions. It was only months ago that the new board members were out campaigning that they needed to “stop the madness”. They portrayed themselves as not wanting to spend any money at all. Berdell had a gigantic billboard calling himself “the taxpayer’s candidate”. That’s very misleading compared to what they’re up to now. It’s not that the economy has changed. It’s that they’ve been lying in wait to get their hands on the money to use it as an excuse to build their new school. Isn’t it interesting that the amount quoted comes just in under what’s left of the $80 million? Just think, if it wasn’t for morons like White and Pyle, we would have $7 million more on top of that to build or renovate. I myself would much rather pay taxes on something to benefit our kids than pay for NOTHING thanks to two overpaid legislators doing their wealthy backers bidding. Choncek always harped when referring to spending “not at this time” like a broken record. All he meant was wait until he could spend it as he wanted.
And by the way, you aren’t the only one that’s had your posts edited or deleted. I’ve learned that if I want something posted I need to keep my emotions in check.
billbell-You are right on the nose. Those architects were told ahead of time to keep the costs where they are. It’s the old bait and switch. They will give the bare minimum’s and then have to add, add, add. Don’t count on the other local media to let you know about it. They’re bought and paid for by the same people that control this school board. People need to pay attention or this will slip through just like West Hills did.
By Jerri, February 8, 2012 @ 4:22 PM
nonamerequired-West Hills went over budget close to $10 million. Bill Kerr told me that there were so many change orders they couldn’t give an accurate amount on the true costs. The kicker is the primary building (built in the 70′s) still has the original windows because all the money was put into the new intermediate. That was the Rupp controlled board that pushed whatever they wanted through. At that same time, they had estimates from Rogers architects in which they could’ve built West Hills and renovated Lenape Elementary, an Elderton k-12, KT Elementary and Shannock Elementary for under $50 million. Rupp got in control thanks to one vote changing when Bartosh got elected and everything was dropped but West Hills. The money they spent on that ridiculous brick arch and those futuristic posts on the front of the new elementary could have paid for those windows since the windows would have been reimbursable. Now if the windows are replaced, we taxpayers pay 100%. This new board is all connected with those same board members. Solak and Stitt were in minority. Oh and did I mention it was the Rupp controlled board that raised taxes 8 mills to pay for this fiasco?
By billbell, February 8, 2012 @ 4:45 PM
Agreed, but this board’s leading(s) are a whole lot cheaper and more realistic.
By Tankster, February 8, 2012 @ 7:30 PM
I trust this school board to do the right thing and promote positive change but if they go down the trail of trying to pad the West Hills area then my views are going to change real quick. We can build new and close old schools for the GOOD of the district. We should not be looking to promote and build up one area of the district. I think that message has been loud and clear. I will be watching certain board members and the direction that they want to take the district. I am 50/50 right now because it seems they are planning positive changes but they have also tried throwing in some special perks for their own personal agendas. Keep bringing the West Hills stuff and then this thing is going to split the district wide open under another new board. Let’s get this boat back on the right course.
By worthingtonman, February 8, 2012 @ 8:48 PM
@Kittanninglady
If a person wants to know why it is hard to get decent people to run for elected volunteer positions,They can just read your personal attack on such a person. Trying to hurt her employment and client base was totally not called for. she is not in a public tas founded position. I hope people see the innuendos and rumors you profess to be true. I actually hope Amy lawyers up and comes after you.
By Kittanning Lady, February 9, 2012 @ 5:32 AM
@ Worthingtonman,I am only passing on info that was shared.Amy has to come to the conclusion that she is an ELECTED OFFICIAL,just look at all elected officials,even the privious board members. If they could take the public to court for expressing their views then they would have never left the court room from all the attacks as you say on them.Oh and another thing I DO KNOW WHO YOU REALLY ARE! AND… If you think you are so in touch with everything that is going on then why don’t you run for the School Board?
By asdgrad, February 9, 2012 @ 9:19 AM
Would all of you just stop, act your age, they haven’t decided on anything yet; and besides they are doing what they where elected to do. Whats best for the students and the distract.
In other news Leechburg is being anti Lenape again…So i ask whats the point of the half day b/s at Lenape when lechburg is just trying to leave all other again? Again i say if that school district can’t handle its self it should just close.
By JornJensen, February 9, 2012 @ 9:59 AM
ShannockMom – Good comment! Many of us wonder the exact same questions – “What is the real story? Does anyone know?” Some will say that the wealthy ‘own’ the school board and have an ‘agenda’.
And that they ‘own’ many government people and have an ‘agenda’, and so forth.
Regardless of who owns whom, we need a district that lives within its ever-decreasing means. Same goes for towns like Kittanning and Ford City that have lost industry and industrial income – they need to live within their ever-decreasing means also.
By JornJensen, February 9, 2012 @ 10:03 AM
worthingtonman – Oh, oh! You’ve been found out by KittanningLady! You can’t hide behind that screen name!
By worthingtonman, February 9, 2012 @ 10:04 AM
@kittanninglady
I for one do not care if you think you know who I am. Second, I don’t know everything that is going on in the district nor do I have any interest in being on the school board because I would have no patience in dealing with the crap these people have to take. I listen to what the board members are actually saying not rumors or things I have heard from others. Amy is a very good person,very good mother and very good at her job. Nobody has the right to spread rumors trying to hurt her practice.
By kwiss4, February 9, 2012 @ 10:16 AM
asdgrad,
Why do you think Lenape has decided to let students in 10th-12th grade attend Lenape half day starting next school year? Do you really think ASD cares if Leechburg students attend Lenape? Think, Think, Think, what is the real reason for Lenape offering half day?
By asdgrad, February 9, 2012 @ 2:58 PM
Kwiss4,
I understand what you are saying, however you, all of you need to remember that Lenape was set up by four different school districts and still is and still ran by the same four districts, so not every think Lenape does is to just peas ASD.
ASD should care what the other school Districts do with there VO-Tech Students because it will all come down to money at some point.
By Jan, February 9, 2012 @ 3:42 PM
@kwiss: I don’t propose to know all the answers but in regard to your comment “what is the real reason that Lenape offers half day?”… the answer to that is “ask Dr. Chapp”. He and some others last year were the ones who proposed opening Lenape up to 10th graders on a half time basis- could it be that they also discussed and proposed offering this same opportunity to 11th-12th graders? Why is everyone so gun-ho on thinking that the ASD school board has anything to do with this? There are other members who sit on the JOC from sending schools- maybe they have ulterior motives for this? Ever think of that? And what do you think is the “real” reason for Lenape offering half day? I’m very curious about that. Lenape is not the first vocational school to do this- there are others who have done the same thing. It only enhances education. If a student is interested in furthering their education in technology or IT,(an example) isn’t it a good idea for them to see if this is something they really want to do, and yet, not give up their home school education altogether?
What other motives are there? The real issue here is that everyone has become so skeptical of the school board- past and present. What I see in this new board is that they are willing to explore all of the options- and find a solution to how we can provide a good education and at the same time, be fiscally responsible. Everyone needs to remember that this current board did not vote on the $80M bond- and yet, they are stuck with it. If we give it back- it cost the district $40M. What do you propose?
By kwiss4, February 9, 2012 @ 5:23 PM
billbell,
Explain to me what you think you are going to get with the 70 some million that is left over?
By scott_starr, February 9, 2012 @ 9:01 PM
@Jeri:
For the record, Admin did not delete or edit my post, there was no “emotion” in it.
I believe I may have done something to the post before it was sent and accidentally deleted content.
Genrally speaking if you don’t think the economy makes a difference in building costs I disagree.
Sam Kirk, if you would have read the next post down you would have seen my correction.
By JornJensen, February 10, 2012 @ 7:12 AM
Jan – Clarification, please. Are you saying that all grades, Lenape VoTech, would be better at 1/2 day or are you saying that 10th grade only at 1/2 day, for the ‘see if this is what you want to do’ scenario is better, with 11th and 12th remaining full-day?
I read your comment as being in favor of 10th grade 1/2 day only. Do I understand it correctly?
By The Phantom, February 10, 2012 @ 8:01 AM
Jan… how can you say the board is exploring ALL the options when Ford City remaining open is not included in ANY of the options?
By kwiss4, February 10, 2012 @ 10:10 AM
It would appear we are going to get bogged down in another elementary discussion. As far as the lenape Half day program no one ever said full day was gone, I would just like to know how we can afford this program, and if it is a good idea now why wasn’t it a good idea a 3 years ago? The mere mention of looking at what could be accomplished with a half day program was seen as “the trojan horse”. What is different now?
By fatboyonthehill, February 10, 2012 @ 12:58 PM
The new board is ideology and agenda driven just like the last one. No real progress will ever happen in this county/district until that changes.
By Lisa, February 10, 2012 @ 2:11 PM
Jan – The very same points you posted above about the students attending Lenape 1/2 day and how this would enhance their education were the same points that were given to the ASD board 3 years ago. The same people that were against having Lenape 1/2 day are sitting on the board today. Why was this option not good enough then? We now have lost 3 years of an ideal program for the students. What changed their minds now?
You ask for a proposal. If this district really wants to move forward and provide everyone with equal opportunities than a new 9th through 12th grade high school that is centrally located that all students in the ASD would be able to join is the answer. The words CENTRAL and ALL are key. Find a different architect firm that would ensure that our students are getting a quality education along with the tax payers getting the most they can for their hard earned dollar. These firms are out there. For example,Bethel Park School District, but this board is not looking hard enough. It really makes people wonder if the ASD board really wants change for the entire district or are some attendance areas yet again going to sacrifice for a certain area. This is how this district has been operating for years and it is not working. A change needs to happen that includes all attendance areas 9th through 12th grade in a centrally located area.
By soissisc, February 10, 2012 @ 2:28 PM
Phantom:
The board is exploring all options that MAKE SENSE!
By Jan, February 10, 2012 @ 2:47 PM
@Jorn: I don’t think my post indicated that I only see 10th. grade as the only option for 1/2 instruction. At the time it was proposed and voted on last year- it was solely about 10th. graders- however, in the past year, it has opened up to 11th. and 12th. graders- and in all honesty, I was not aware of that- and I’m in that building quite a bit. If opening up half day instruction to 11th and 12th graders works, I’m not opposed to that at all; as I said, anytime we can expose our students to different things- that’s not a bad thing. Based on what I’m hearing, the number of students taking advantage of this is minimal. The bottom line in what my post stated: the ASD does not have all the say in what direction Lenape takes- it is up to their JOC of all sending schools.
@ Phantom: I stand by my comment- I do think that the board is exploring all options, based on what the architects are telling them. Kittanning HS. is also slated to be closed in the options- other than if they would decide to use it as a junior high building. I’m not sure I think that’s a good option though. Bottom line- everything being tossed out there is just one of many options- nothing sealed in stone. We all need to remember this. The majority of our schools are not in real good shape, the enrollment has decreased in many of the schools and when looking at saving money while offering a good curriculum, we all have to adjust to the fact that our home schools may just have to be closed… and as I stated before, the bond money has to be used so this new board is faced with making some tough decisions.
By jerry6, February 10, 2012 @ 3:02 PM
I guess Batalagia is glad for all of the school distraction because no one is talking about him now.
I see there was another deadly accident near Cherry Run this morning on 422 East. Of course, a coal truck was involved. They are taking down 6 houses across from KT firehall this spring to improve 422. Until they get the coal trucks to slow down on that road, nothing will help. It is nothing to see 6 coal trucks in row flying on this road.
By kwiss4, February 11, 2012 @ 8:44 AM
Lisa,
I googled Bethel Park School District amazing what they were able to accomplish. No one wanted to hear about Lenape offering half day. Now those that made the most noise about keeping it full day are saying how wonderful it is that the students can return home for their academic instruction. This change has to be part of the discussion as it will have an impact on the cost of transportation.
By JornJensen, February 11, 2012 @ 8:54 AM
jerry6 – This is off-topic regarding schools, but news reports also stated that the coal truck driver was not the cause of the accident – that he tried to avoid the accident and, in doing so, toppled the truck and dumped the load.
Another one a while back was a coal truck that came upon a person stopped and making a left turn across traffic on 422. Again, the truck driver tried to avoid, toppled and dumped the load. Why anyone would sit at 0 mph in a 45 or 55 mph zone is beyond me – make a safe turn further down the road and come back.
By JornJensen, February 11, 2012 @ 9:23 AM
Jan – Regarding 1/2 day Lenape VoTech, 11th and 12th grade – what about the added transportation costs and student time wasted riding a bus midday (4 bus trips per day)?
By The Phantom, February 11, 2012 @ 1:00 PM
Jan… I am not so opposed to closing any of the schools. But when FCHS is the only school excluded right from the get go,the board is asking for major problems. IMHO
By JohnK, February 11, 2012 @ 1:03 PM
Jerry6,
Yes there are coal trucks who fly on all of these roads. Don’t paint them all with one broad brush. Of course a coal truck was involved.. So therefore, you are insinuating that it was the coal truck’s fault. In all actuality, the other guy was speeding and recklessly passing. The truck driver did everything humanly possible to avoid the accident, which caused him to dump his load. No need to throw an innocent guy under the bus. He’s the victim here. I agree something needs to be done with the reckless drivers..but that’s cars, trucks..everyone.
By jerry6, February 12, 2012 @ 6:28 PM
Iknow from what I read that this accident was not the coal truck drivers fault.
Get gas sometime at Quickfill across from Trader Horn and hear and see how the trucks fly past there or go to the bank on 422 just up from Trader Horn and listen to the noise and speed of the trucks. The people who work at both the bank and gas station comment on the trucks flying by all the time. I live along 422 and see first hand what I am talking about. I know cars fly also. It is a shame that there isn’t enough money for a four lane road out that way.
By Jan, February 13, 2012 @ 7:47 AM
@kwiss: I’ll assume that your comment regarding some people making noise now about a half time program vs full time program at Lenape is meant for people like me. I fully support Lenape as a comprehensive school and that will not change. However, if the JOC at Lenape decided to allow students to attend Lenape on a half time basis to explore specific trade areas- I have no issue with that. There are so few students who are taking advantage of this. I believe there are only 8 students doing this currently.
@Jorn: I don’t have the answer to the transportation question. I would assume that busing has to be offered for these students but in order to get the answer, one would have to ask administration there for those figures. I will take it upon myself to ask that question- as it’s a good one.
By kwiss4, February 13, 2012 @ 11:31 AM
Jan,
I understand that there are only a few students taking advantage of this right now but, what if come april there are 100 students who want to try half day? You are all about downsizing, now you are ok with paying teachers to teach academics in both Lenape and the home schools, and to pay for transportation? Where is the fiscal responsibility in that decision?
By ShannockMom, February 13, 2012 @ 11:41 AM
@JornJensen Thank you for responding to my post. We are still confused in my area about the future of our children. No one ever discussed any of this publicly. It appears this just came out of the blue. Now we are hearing that people are pushing for West Shamokin to become an elementary or junior high. My neighbor has her house for sale and she can’t tell prospective buyers where their children will go to school. This is very confusing and we just want answers.
By Jan, February 13, 2012 @ 2:16 PM
@kwiss: Good questions. However, we are already seeing academics being taught at Lenape and home schools, so nothing is changed there. We also need to consider that if we used your calculation of 100 students wanting to attend Lenape half time- we are talking about other sending schools besides the ASD. I also highly doubt that number of students would want to do this. Our fiscal responsibility comes in the form of closing schools that are antiquated and have low enrollment. And before you bring up the fact that enrollment would change with this- I don’t think it would. I think there is way too much discussion on the “what ifs” of students choosing to go to Lenape half time. Students who thought they wanted to do this- found out that they were satisfied at their home and went back. We are talking about a small number of students not a mass exodus to Lenape.
By Jerri, February 13, 2012 @ 3:02 PM
kwiss4-It’s obvious that all the hoopla caused a few years ago regarding Lenape Tech was simply a smokescreen to take the focus off what the elitists were really planning. Joe Close was so adament against Lenape Tech being touched in any way until in benefitted his own son. Many of those that supported Lobby and company felt the new high school could be built on Lenape property. A half day program suits their new school plans wherever it is because it will pump more kids into that new school and bring tech school costs down. They’re not taking into consideration busing or loss of income from other schools but then who cares about money? We may have a swimming pool!
Berdell is a loud mouth. If you want to know the truth about any of the new board’s plans, forget about going to board meetings. Go work out at the Snyder YMCA. You can hear a lot there. For instance, Berdell is supposed to do the big reveal tonight as to where they can build their new school. A very prominent and dirty family from our area is to donate the land. And to top it off, it is right next door to property owned by the Altman property. If this is true, don’t be too excited about that property donation. It can be written off and that family can make tons of money off us taxpayers with stone, cement, gas, and block. As of last year, we still didn’t get the free and reduced gas from that family as per the agreement at WH. The Kerr admin lied by saying the free gas just wasn’t enough to cover WH expenses but left out the fact that the pipes were never even hooked up! So according to Bill Henley at a public meeting, we taxpayers have been paying about $58K per year! While that family rakes in profits from us and the gas customers. Isn’t it sweet to have board directors in your pocket?
By maddog, February 13, 2012 @ 9:59 PM
Nothing proves more of what a bunch of liars we have on the new school board than attending a meeting and seeing for yourself. For people that said they wanted to start with a new slate they sure have an agenda. They didn’t want a new school but they already have land for it! Unbelievable! Do these people think we are stupid? I’m beginning to believe the people on here saying Snyders are behind all of this.
By JornJensen, February 14, 2012 @ 7:51 AM
If the Snyders are ‘behind all of this’, wonder if they will pay back the $80 million for us? That would be nice.
The Snyders run businesses – they know when to downsize and when to upsize – otherwise, they wouldn’t be successful at what they do.
Right now, and in the last 40 years, we need(ed) to downsize in the ASD.
By nonamerequired, February 14, 2012 @ 9:32 AM
Jorn, respectfully, the problem with that is that yes, they run successful businesses, and makes tons of money, noone would deny that. But the decision to build a new school on OUR dime shouldn’t be a business opportunity for the rich and powerful. Everyone agrees it has to be based on the growth, income and longevity of the average people in the county. The majority. The majority that has no power. Even if Snyder would donate the land to make it look charitable, and more palitable to taxpayers, do you honestly think wealth an power isn’t behind it? Bids will be given to certain companies. Companies Snyder holds interest in. Now, I have brains in my head. I have no problem with money being made off of hard work and intelligence, and even off of doing good and still profiting, but being lost in all these behind the scenes dealing are the children. Is this necessary, feasible in this economic climate, and will it truly benefit our children? Can the average taxpayer afford what is coming? I am guessing these decisions have already been made, and have been in process even before the elections. The taxpayers of this county shouldn’t be responsible for footing the bill of a business venture for the already wealthy.
By nonamerequired, February 14, 2012 @ 9:40 AM
If people are really worried, and believe me, I am, speak up, get out there and be heard. It might not make a difference, but its better than doing nothing and paying for it later. Write to the school board, write to Pyle and White, even if their hands are in deep pockets, too. Make sure that when they make the wrong choices, that those choices are going against the people who elected them into office, and the people who can kick them out. Make sure they know the people in Armstrong County aren’t dumb, and can see whats happening. If they don’t vote on this by the end of next month, they will have to wait until the end of the fiscal year. I bet they aren’t willing to wait, and will push this through before the taxpayers even know what hit them. These decisions should take rime to make, considering how long we’ll be paying for it.
By Jan, February 14, 2012 @ 10:49 AM
Seriously, what is all this hype about the Snyder’s? What is the big deal in what the Snyders own,give away, work hard for and reap the benefits of their hard work? If the Snyders have financial success it might just have to do with the fact that they earned it the old fashioned way— through hard work and vision. I’m sure that there are plenty of people in the county with financial success but I’m not going around bashing them for that. Furthermore- what would the Snyder’s hope to gain in controlling a school district? This is madness.Let’s just say that the Snyders do have land (hypothetically) to give away— what’s wrong with that? They donated land for the new YMCA- all that they got for this was a name attached to it- big deal! Give it up folks. You all sound like a bunch of green monsters begrudging others for what they have. I can’t waste time worrying about what others have that I don’t have. The Snyder’s have been nothing but good to this county- they give back to this county in many ways that most people are not aware of- and that’s the way they want it to be. How about focusing on how we can provide the best education for our students; determine the best way to give it to them at a cost that will be fiscally responsible. Quit pointing fingers at everyone- let’s get down to business!
By Jerri, February 14, 2012 @ 12:59 PM
Jan-Obviously you are happy because you are a long time consolidation supporter finally getting what you want. The “Snyder bashing” as you call it is not based on envy by anyone regardless of what you believe. I applaud businessed that support our communities and allow healthy competition. Snyder’s don’t support anyone without benefitting in some way. The YMCA property was a property they’d probably never sell so they unloaded it with a nice write-off. The name on the YMCA was just a bonus for them. I wonder if that’s Bauer Block or Armstrong Cement products being used?
They now own F and M Bank. Wonder if any costs of the YMCA or this new school will be financed through that bank?
I think the biggest problem people have with Snyder’s is they work in the shadows using their money to influence votes and interfere in things they have no business to be in. It’s a control issue and it has crippled our county for years. No one is allowed to be successful without their approval. Do you think Rosebud or Berdell would have their businesses without Snyders? No. While these are successful businesses, how many have suffered that weren’t on the favored list?
Joe Close was telling people at Allegheny Power a few years back that he could get land by Barker’s Appliance for a new high school. Isn’t it interesting that Joe Close was very vocal about giving Snyder’s a right of way at West Hills without opening the previous gas lease they made with the ASD when West Hills was done. He said no one gives free gas anymore. I understand your conviction in wanting a new school. I’m glad you’re finally showing your true colors instead of pretending as so many of your previous posts denied the new school issue. But corruption is corruption. I just hope the taxpayers realize it before it’s too late.
By samkirk, February 14, 2012 @ 1:07 PM
Having only options for building new is not being fiscally responsible. It is a cheat to the taxpayers and a slap in the face to anyone that voted for these seven.
Amy Lhote, Paul Lobby, Chris Choncek, Stan Berdell, Joe Close, Larry Robb, and Jim Rearic—
Your names will be forever remembered as the biggest liars to ever sit on the Armstrong School Board!
By samkirk, February 14, 2012 @ 1:15 PM
@jornjensen Snyder’s really are behind all of this. Stan Berdell told a lot of people he didn’t want to run for board but Don White talked him into it. White told him that he could just stay on a year and then “they” could appoint whomever they want.
Dave Snyder sent an email to one of his employees on the Sunday before the primary. It said for her to forward to all employees of all businesses they control (Bauer, Sylvan, etc.). He told people to read the press release (a whining piece of propoganda with no facts) from Choncek, Close, Rearic and told the employees to forward to all their friends and family so they would know who to vote for who is best for “our school district”. Many people have copies of this. Including me.
Also, it is a fact that Berdell told people Mark Snyder gave Jeff Kimball Berdell’s phone number so that Berdell could meet with him. That was a week before the general election.
Paying us back $80 millin would be a nice idea.
By samkirk, February 14, 2012 @ 1:16 PM
Correction. Berdell met with Kimball’s architects, not Jeff. He is the head honcho which Mark Snyder must be chummy with.
By JornJensen, February 14, 2012 @ 2:30 PM
nonamerequired – I understand your point. The average taxpayer CAN’T afford what is coming. But I don’t understand blaming that on the Snyders. You are absolutely correct – people need to get vocal – I’m vocal on this site and plenty of folks don’t like it – tough.
My opinion is that this decision needs to be handled by the registered voters of the area covererd by the ASD, NOT by just the nine members of the school board. Give us choices (including downsizing into what we already have)on a ballot and let each registered voter make their choice – majority rules and we all pay for the preferred choice.
Read today’s article – especially down toward the bottom – where it refers to the looming pensions. We can’t afford what is coming.
By nonamerequired, February 14, 2012 @ 3:09 PM
Jan, I figured that would be the arguement, but it is certainly not mine. I applaud people for doing well in life, financially and any other way. My problem is the same problem I have with our large government: The want of a few should not outway the want of the majority. We should all have equal say regardless of status and income. And things should be done above the table, with no hidden agenda. Honesty needs to be the number one priority. But an elected official should do what their constituants ask. They represent our voices, not the voice of a few who can speak louder through status or money. This is only my opinion. And, I actually do hope I eat my words someday. I want to be wrong and have them do a great job and listen to the people. I have a legitimate fear that this isn’t the case here. And yes, absolutely the Snyders have done great things, but don’t be blind to other side either. And I respect all opinions on this board and in no way am putting anyone down. This is only my opinion.
By nonamerequired, February 14, 2012 @ 3:56 PM
Correction, outweigh. I understand I spelled it wrong, as I was thinking too fast.
By billybob65, February 14, 2012 @ 4:01 PM
@ShannockMom. You have very good questions but unfortunately you won’t get answers from this school board. They ran for election on a silent platform and they’re hastiness since they’ve been elected shows they don’t care what anyone thinks
When Stitt and Solak said this new board had a new school agenda, they were scoffed at. People called it the imaginary school. Not so imaginary now, is it?
The sad part is that people at Kittanning Township and especially people in your area were totally blindsided by this. Just the way they want it. The fact that they’re rushing into this next week with no time for public reaction shows their callousness towards the taxpayers and communities.
Mr Rearick stood up in a board meeting pounding his fist on the table yelling he wanted referendum. All the HERC people came to the next meeting at Rearics insistence yelling for referendum
If you and your neighbors oppose this, you need to speak up. Email the board, write letters to the editor, get petitions going in protest and make sure you show up at boards meetings. Board directors can be called also. Most of their numbers are in the book
And demand referendum!!!!!!
By billybob65, February 14, 2012 @ 4:06 PM
Oh yeah. Make sure you give Senator Don White and Representative Jeff Pyle a call also. Demand they stop this nonsense. They opposed spending any money. Make them stick by their word!
Don’t be fooled by fabrications! They aren’t stuck with that money. They stopped all efforts to try to give it back
Don white and Jeff Pyle, we will be watching you!
By jerry6, February 14, 2012 @ 4:26 PM
I agree. I don’t think Snyder’s own that property but if they do, so what. If whoever owns that property is willing to give it at a good price, why complain.
I hope they build a new school and close some buildings and not have so many schools to keep up. People have to be ready for change. That is the trouble with this area, no one wants anything to change. Keep up the good work school board.
By jerry6, February 14, 2012 @ 4:30 PM
The new Ford City counsel seems to be trying to do a good job but the old members seem bent on not going along with anything the new ones want to do. I am sick of people getting into office and not doing what is best for the people who voted them in. These people in office have to get over themselves and do what is right for the people. Grow up.